Air conditioning not working for a while - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

LineInTheWater · 10-19-2007, 09:28 PM

Now that I had such a confidence boost from bringing my car back to life, I figured I should ask you guys about my A/C. A few summers back, the A/C was working great. The next spring it was just blowing hot air. I vaguely remember some mechanic putting his pen in a rubber plug or something and saying there was no freon in the system. So, a few questions:

1. Is there a way I verify all the R12 is gone?

2. I know that camrys have issues with expansion valves .... of course, I don't know where the valve is located. Anyone have ideas on how to troubleshoot the leak, without any R12 actually in the system?

3. If I find and fix the leak, what are my options? I know R12 is almost impossible to get. I've heard of Freeze12 which appears to be compatible with R12. I don't know if the conversion to R134 makes sense ... what is required and how much does it really cost?

Thanks for any feedback!

xtremeskier97 · 10-19-2007, 10:34 PM

1. If the air is not blowing cold, then the freon is either gone or waay low.

2. The expansion valve is with the condensor, which is under the dash (behind the glovebox?)

3. If you have/find a leak (if the a/c is blowing hot air, then their is obviously a leak somewhere) then you should replace whatever part is leaking. To find the leak, you should have someone pull a vacuum on the system and put some freon in with dye. They will be able to tell you where the leak is. Since your freon is low, that means air is present in the system, and that is not good.

R12 is not only really hard to come by, but it costs out the #$%^ compared to R134. The conversion is cheap. All the conversion really is, is new service ports that screw onto the old service ports.

My dad and I did this when I went up to VA to pick up my camry a few months back. He works on industrial heating and a/c, so he had a vacuum and everything. All we had to buy was the service port adapters and the R134. Only cost about $40 for us, but if you have to pay someone to pull a vacuum and find the leak, then it will cost more than that.

Good luck.

LineInTheWater · 10-20-2007, 07:00 AM

xtreme ... is there a way to isolate the leak before dealing with the freon? Is there some inert dye or other gas that can help reveal the problem? And what kind of industrial vacuum are you referring to?

Stillrunning · 10-20-2007, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremeskier97

All the conversion really is, is new service ports that screw onto the old service ports.

Wrong - unless your dad is an HVAC tech.

Quote:

My dad and I did this... He works on industrial heating and a/c

LineInTheWater, if you don't know anything about A/C and have no gauges or equipment then I would either fix the leak and re-charge with R-12 or get a pro to convert. Conversion has it's drawbacks and considerations, trust me I've done two.

LineInTheWater · 10-20-2007, 07:13 AM

I would like to know the source and expense of fixing the leak before committing to buying/modifying/charging with freon. If it is over say like $250, I would probably just say forget about it. I was hoping there was some way I could do some simple troubleshooting before getting involved in the decision between R12 and R134. And does anyone know anything about this Freeze12 stuff? Is there Freeze12 with leak detection?

Stillrunning · 10-20-2007, 08:12 AM

An A/C shop can fill with R-12, source the leak and re-claim the R-12 in the system for little cost. You will probably have to pull a vacuum on the system first though for an additional charge. Just take it to a shop and get a quote. You're going to have to spend some money to find the leak and have some info to make a decision. Other solution - open a window.

LineInTheWater · 10-20-2007, 08:39 AM

I hear you ... what do you think the range of cost for troubleshooting the leak?

Stillrunning · 10-20-2007, 11:43 AM

An hour's labor? Not sure. Pulling a vacuum is a hook-up and then let it sit for a while. Leak detection might depend on what method he's using. I would recommend a speciality shop or a shop with a dedicated A/C tech.

xtremeskier97 · 10-20-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

Wrong - unless your dad is an HVAC tech.

LineInTheWater, if you don't know anything about A/C and have no gauges or equipment then I would either fix the leak and re-charge with R-12 or get a pro to convert. Conversion has it's drawbacks and considerations, trust me I've done two.

My dad IS an HVAC tech...but what does that have to do with saying what I said is wrong?! Those ports are the only things you HAVE to change. They do recommend replacing the dryer though...as that is where moisture in the system will cumulate. The leak that was in my system was at one of the service ports...so when we put the new adapter on the port, it fixed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

An A/C shop can fill with R-12, source the leak and re-claim the R-12 in the system for little cost. You will probably have to pull a vacuum on the system first though for an additional charge. Just take it to a shop and get a quote. You're going to have to spend some money to find the leak and have some info to make a decision. Other solution - open a window.

Why would a shop put R12 in an empty system and then reclaim it after finding the leak? They will more than likely just try putting pressure in the system and try to find the leak first so they dont waste R12. R12 isnt cheap and converting it to R134 is not expensive (depending on what is actually leaking). My dad put pressure on my 86 RX-7 to find the leak. I cant remember what he used..maybe nitrogen?

Ive converted 3 cars now. My 86 RX-7, 92 Accord, and this 93 Camry. All of which I changed the ports and drier, and put in R134 after pulling a vacuum (though I did replace the compressor on the Accord because that is where the leak was). Never cost more that about $45...but like has been said before...if you dont have guages and a vacuum...you'll need to get it done by a shop. Just take it to a few places and see what they will charge.

And there is no drawback to conversion...my A/C blows ICE cold in my Camry. Got to when living in Louisiana heat+humidity.

Stillrunning · 10-20-2007, 05:13 PM

"And there is no drawback to conversion"

One drawback is that R134 molecules are smaller than R12. You might find a few more leaks when 134 is installed that may require tearing the system down some more to fix. Recommended fill capacity of 134 is 80% of R12. If you don't use a high pressure gauge on refill and you just go by # of cans you could blow a few seals, even inside compressor. Typical 134 systems are more robust than R12 so a converted R12 may not put out the cool you are used to. Seal compatability is also a consideration.