1996 Camry automatic transmission problem

[stubirdnb]

I'm considering buying a 1996 Camry, 4-cyl. (2.2 L), automatic (about 175,000 miles). There is a problem with the transmission (I think). Everything works fine except on the highway, even when warm, the car doesn't seem to make the final shift (overdrive) and at 100 km/hr (60 mph) the tach shows around 3000 rpm. I drove it for a half hour and tried speeds up to 130 km/hr (3700 rpm) but it just wouldn't make the final shift. I own a 1995 Camry (with 515,000 kilometers) with the same motor and (presumably) same transmission and at 100 km/hr my tach shows about 2400 rpm so I suspect something is up with the '96. The strange thing about this however is that when I'm driving the '96 at highway speeds and click on the O/D button (O/D OFF) the rpms jump up slightly (about 200 rpms). I tried this several times to make sure I wasn't imagining it. How can this be?

The car is so quiet and smooth that many people wouldn't even be aware that the rpms are too high at highway speeds. I pointed this out to the dealer selling the car and he seemed genuinely surprised but agreed with me (after taking it for a drive) that it wasn't making the final shift. Because of this potential problem with the transmission he's offered to sell me the car for a terrific price but it won't look so terrific if I'm faced with a $2000 transmission bill.

Could any of you offer any suggestions as to what may be wrong with the transmission....i.e. the probability that it's just an electrical problem (fuse, sensor, wire, etc.) that might not cost too much to repair as opposed to a broken piston/crank whatever in the transmission that will cost a lot. The transmission seems to work perfectly apart from this failure to shift into overdrive - no indication that it is slipping or pausing - I even tried backing up a steep hill and it worked fine.

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

Stu in New Brunswick
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1995 Camry 2.2L Automatic w/ 515,000 kilometers

[toyomoho]

3rd gear has about a 1:1 gear ratio; O/D is about 0.7 to 1. Thus when the O/D engages the RPM should drop from 3rd gear RPM to 0.7 times the 3rd gear RPM.

When at 3000 RPM in 3rd gear at 60 MPH, this would drop to 2100 RPM when the OD engages.

The trans also has a locking torque converter. When engaged at higher speeds, the torque converter acts much like a standard manual clutch (no slipping).

Just guessing the O/D gear is not engaging but the torque converter is locking up. Hence when you turn off the O/D switch what you are seeing is the torque converter unlocking and a resulting small change in engine RPM.

The trans has 3 electric solenoid valves, all-accessible without removing the trans. Or it could be an internal problem.

My concern is the dealer may know what the problem is as they are offering to drop the price significantly. If the issue were an easy fix would the dealer not have the car fixed at wholesale repair rates?

If the trans requires taking it out for repair, the usual response is to buy a good used trans for $3-400 rather then repair the old on. Not so bad if one can do the job themselves, but costly if you need to pay for labor.

I would say when taking the car out for a test drive to find a transmission repair shop and get a second opinion. However many shops seem to opt for major repairs even if the job is simple.

The trans should have some self-diagnostic systems capable of generating trouble codes (much like the engine). You might check to see if a code has been generated.

[keba]

overdrive may be slipping. weak engine maybe?

sounds like OD on @60mph = 3000

OD off @60 mph = 3200

Since there is a difference, Im thinking that OD gear engages but is unable to lock the input and output shafts(the torque convertor locks up at about 50 mph).
There is usually more than a couple hundred RPM @60MPH .
experienced members may correct the slipping guess .

Also,the valve pressure cable can be loosened to quite a bit where the shifts are so lazy and smooth ,but you have to hit very high RPMS for it to shift out to OD.

I would be cautious about the car.
keba

[Kep]

I like what toyomoho said about taking it to a transmission shop to get an estimate. Go to a good one and find out how much the worst case scenario will cost. Add another 10% - 15% for gotchas. Then you'll know what you can pay for the car. If it turns out to be cheaper then you got a deal. If not, you'll still be OK. If you don't want the potential hassle (and there usually will be some) then walk away.

Kep

[dc_98_cam]

If it was your vehicle, you could drain the transmission fluid and clean the pan .... drive it a while and see if there was a difference ... you might inquire when, if ever, the fluid was changed. There are several simple tests that you can do ... resistance of solenoid coils, throttle position voltage increments, which do not require much effort. If there was an obvious problem, then the check engine light would probably be on .... which is apparently not the case here. ... Not sure what to suggest if car is not in your possession. Probably be best to find a transmission shop or two and get diagnosis/estimates.

[SwampFox]

Originally Posted by toyomoho

3rd gear has about a 1:1 gear ratio; O/D is about 0.7 to 1. Thus when the O/D engages the RPM should drop from 3rd gear RPM to 0.7 times the 3rd gear RPM.

When at 3000 RPM in 3rd gear at 60 MPH, this would drop to 2100 RPM when the OD engages.

The trans also has a locking torque converter. When engaged at higher speeds, the torque converter acts much like a standard manual clutch (no slipping).

Just guessing the O/D gear is not engaging but the torque converter is locking up. Hence when you turn off the O/D switch what you are seeing is the torque converter unlocking and a resulting small change in engine RPM.

The trans has 3 electric solenoid valves, all-accessible without removing the trans. Or it could be an internal problem.

My concern is the dealer may know what the problem is as they are offering to drop the price significantly. If the issue were an easy fix would the dealer not have the car fixed at wholesale repair rates?

If the trans requires taking it out for repair, the usual response is to buy a good used trans for $3-400 rather then repair the old on. Not so bad if one can do the job themselves, but costly if you need to pay for labor.

I would say when taking the car out for a test drive to find a transmission repair shop and get a second opinion. However many shops seem to opt for major repairs even if the job is simple.

The trans should have some self-diagnostic systems capable of generating trouble codes (much like the engine). You might check to see if a code has been generated.

I see that your location is up North. I assume that during the winter, the highway departments probably use a lot of salt on the roads which creates a corrosion problem for most cars after some time. The transmission is electrically controlled with a couple of solenoids and one of these controls the torque converter O/D lock up. It maybe possible that some of wiring connections to the trans have corroded. The problem maybe solved by disconnecting then reconnecting the wiring harness connection points several times to get a clean mating and then hosing washing out the junction with WD40 or similar silicone oil then reconnect.

[dc_98_cam]

Originally Posted by SwampFox

I see that your location is up North. I assume that during the winter, the highway departments probably use a lot of salt on the roads which creates a corrosion problem for most cars after some time. The transmission is electrically controlled with a couple of solenoids and one of these controls the torque converter O/D lock up. It maybe possible that some of wiring connections to the trans have corroded. The problem maybe solved by disconnecting then reconnecting the wiring harness connection points several times to get a clean mating and then hosing washing out the junction with WD40 or similar silicone oil then reconnect.

That definitely sounds like a possibility ....

Also, take a look at the Transmission Diagnostic procedure ... see p.44 of the I4 Transmission section of the Camry online repair manual ...
Basically, note whether or not the O/D OFF light works when you turn ignition to ON, and also whether it blinks .... to indicate that something is wrong.

[stubirdnb]

Many thanks to all of you who have contributed to this thread by sharing your experience and expertise. If the car is still available I'm going to try to arrange to take it to a transmission shop and provide them with a printed copy of this thread and will be sure to let you know what comes of it. Thanks again!

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1995 Camry 2.2L Automatic w/ 515,600 kilometers