Bought a Camry, maybe shouldnt have

[mdemco]

I have been looking all over the net for info and this site seems to be about the best. Long story short I bought a 97 camry, in really nice shape, tons of maintenance and a new japanese import motor. Well it had a misfire that developed while going up a hill. So naturally the plugs and wires were changed and it didnt fix it. Still getting a cylinder 2 and 4 mis and a random cylinder mis code.

As I am looking through this I notice the motor in the car is a 3SFE 2.0l engine, not a 2.2l. So that throws everything out the window, I dont know why a 2.0 was installed.

Anyone have any advice as to what I should be looking for? The exhaust smells of fuel, the motor clears and wraps up to 6k rpm no problem, has plenty of top end power but misses terribly when idling and occasionally the check engine light flashes if you floor it. I have no experience with the 2.0l and dont even know what manual to be looking at.
Thanks for any help
Mike

[dc_98_cam]

The exhaust smells of fuel

Any information on the timing belt? Even without a manual, it should be straightforward to remove the upper timing belt cover, inspect the condition of the TB, and examine the alignment of the crank pulley position and the cam pulley mark.

[mdemco]

The timing belt was changed about 10k ago, I can definitely check it and that would explain the sudden missing issue if it jumped, but wouldnt it affect more than two cylinders? I get codes 300, 302 and 304, but I dont know how accurately the ecm can pinpoint missing cylinders.

[Stillrunning]

The reason you got a 2.0 and not a 2.2 is because the Japanese used the 2.0 in the four and that's where most of the used engines come from, at least from installers selling Japanese take-out engines.

Are you actually getting a misfire or just a code that says "misfire"? I think the ECM detects misfires from the knock sensors. I did read somewhere that the sensors can send confusing signals to the ecm in some engines.

[dc_98_cam]

The timing belt was changed about 10k ago

Doesn't sound like timing belt is the problem ... unless it was installed incorrectly.

Could the belt be a tooth off?
If you remove the upper timing belt cover, you should not find any obvious slack on either side of the cam pulley... That is, there might be a slight deflection in the TB, but you should not see any looseness on one side or the other of the cam pulley.

Who installed the belt?

[mdemco]

A reputable shop installed the belt with a new tensioner, I will check it but feel it is not the cause, the codes I get are specific misfire codes, p0300, 302, 304, 300 indicates a random mis detected, 302 and 304 say a mis specifically on cyl's 2 and 4.

[dc_98_cam]

For the following codes:
P0300
P0301
P0302
P0303
P0304

The Gen 4 Diagnostic section (5s-fe engine) in the repair manual
shows possible causes as:
Ignition system
Injector
Fuel line pressure
EGR
Compression pressure
Valve clearance not to specification
Valve timing
Manifold absolute pressure sensor
Engine coolant temp. sensor
Open or short engine wire
Connector connection
ECM

So .... You might check the EGR valve .... manually deflect diaphragm while engine is running, disassemble EGR and check for carbon clogging in tubes.

Replace fuel filter

Remove injectors ... have tested and cleaned for proper spray pattern.

Check ECT for temp vs. resistance specification ... there is a chart for this.

What doesn't make too much sense is that this engine should not have a lot of wear and high mileage problems.

[mdemco]

Would the diagnostic procedures be the same with this engine being a 2.0l? Or would I need to use the procedures from another year/make?

As a side note the ECT is a thought, car is runnning cold, just above operating temp.

[eurohazard]

I hate to tell you this, but there's little to no way for us to help you troubleshoot. I personally don't know the interchangeability of ECM/engines or 5SFE and 3SGE, but do you even know if that is the correct ECM for that motor? Or did they use the existing (5SFE) ECM for the new engine?

[Kep]

3SFE was the engine used in the 1990 model that I owned. I suspect that the codes are similar if not the same. I believe that there is an on line manual in the GEN 1,2 forum. I have a 5SFE now and visually, they are almost identical.

If I understand you correctly, the car has been running fine since you bought it and is just now giving you these problems. Correct? On the other hand, if this all started pretty much after you drove off the lot and you don't have any personal history with the car I would suspect an incomplete engine replacement.

Just for grins, after you pull the trouble codes, disconnect the battery for 5 minutes or so to clear out the ECU memory and try it again. If the ECU was mismatched to the engine and ran fine until the engine demanded more power (the hill) then clearing out the ECU might revert it back to the pre-hill condition. Just a guess. It should run mediocre for the first 50 miles or so while readjusting and then level out (until the next hill).

I am uncertain what you mean by "misses terribly". If you can describe that more thoroughly, it might help. There are several possibilities at this time. If the engine was installed properly you should be able to resolve this.

If the engine replacement was not divulged when you bought the car you might have legal recourse through small claims court since you had every reason to believe that it was the original model engine in the car (replaced or not).

Kep

[Venom_5]

if its a 3S-FE motor, you would get better results asking the guys in the Gen 1 & 2 section

[mdemco]

The engine swap was done two years ago and was done properly and the car did run great just alittle underpowered.

It was pulling a hill and it was like a switch was flipped. The performance is down, it smells of gas, it misses badly at idle, like it is barely staying running, under the hood it revs up to the full 6k rpm and sounds fine when not under a load. When under a load it runs decent at the hiher rpms but if you really get in the middle of it the MIL flashes.

The codes were all for misfires so common sense told me plugs and wires but it made no change. If it is on 2 cylinders I would imagine it would not be injectors or timing. I verified the firing order and the other basics. I will tear into it tomorrow morning but dont really know what to be looking for.

[bigdaddymak20]

I am a toyota tech. If the motor is the japan version for this car then all the sensors are obdII. The motor will work just like the 5sfe as far as diagnostics. You can't clear codes on obdII by disconnecting the battery. You will need a scan tool and most likely from reading your problems a good technician. From working in a toyota dealership I can tell you missfires are a rare occation. So something is not right but possibilities are endless. Timing belt off, spark plugs wrong(toyotas very sensative to type of plugs), ect. Hope this helps.

[mdemco]

Thank you that does help. I needed to know the diagnostic procedures would be similiar. I am going to start with the ignition syatem work that was done, check timing and compresssion, and than start checking sensor ohm's, see where that gets me.

[ROBS]

My previous car was an 88 Camry with 3SFE and I had done a lot of work on the engine, basically rebuilt the top end. One thing that was giving me a problem was the distributor. It is very common for the inner shaft seal on the dizzy to fail causing oil to leak into the cap, where the coil is, and cause the coil to crack. Just a thought, but its something to check. That would cause a misfire. Also, did you replace the cap and rotor? (I guess if you changed the wires, you changed the cap a well since it is all one piece with the wires on that engine (North America version anyways)).