1997 5S-FE long block swapped; need help diagnosing starting problem

[beer-2k]

I started a thread last year on my 1997 camry 5s-fe motor being seized up. 1997 Camry won't start but...

Well, the other day (Sunday, Jan 13 2008) I finally got done with the long block swap project after 3 loooonnnng months (about 200 hours total). I finished hooking up the battery and was eager to start her up. I put the key in the ignition and was happy to see the lights on the dash come up and the dingging noise from the door being opened. That was a good sign I thought to myself. As I held my breath, I turned the key.....and....nothing! Nothing happened. No clicks, no nothing. Well that just sucks @ss. First thing that came up to my mind was "the battery". I had previously charged it about 1 week earlier, but that was 1 week earlier. So I go ahead and leave it overnight charging. The next day I hooked the battery back up and proceeded to start her up again. Same thing. Nothing. So whats wrong???

I had double check the ground and there was one that was loose. I tightend that one up and the engine actually cranked and turned over when I went to start it up again. It sputtered and acted like it was choking and died like 5 seconds later. I waited 30 seconds and started her up again, this time added some throttle. She stayed running with my foot on the throttle, but as soon as I let go of the throttle she died. So later tonight after work, I go and start her up again. This time it just cranked and cranked and almost turned over but didn't. Did this like 4 times in a row. There seems to be a "clank" noise after I let go of the key coming from the passenger side.
*side note*
The two ground wires that is attached from the body on the driver side were the only two wires that I had no clue where they go. I don't remember where I took them off at. The factory service manual does not clearly tell me where they go. They are refer to as "ground strap connecter" on page EM-65 and with a blurry picture. The thing here is that on my camry, they are not straps; they have a ring washer type connecter at the end that looks like a bolt goes through it. So, I decided to attach one ground to one of the starter bolt and the other ground to the engine hook.

Ok, I am so stuck now. Possibilities that I came up includes:

a) throttle cable needs adjusting (it seems loose on the throttle body)
b) fuel filter needs replaced (i tried to get that damn thing out but it seems to be stuck/seized on the gas line; so I left it alone using the old one)
c) vacuum lines???
d) wrong ground cable location?
e) what else have I could of possibly done wrong?

P.S. I've never done any such work like this one before nor have I seen it done. I used the basic 300 piece craftsman tool box and a cherry picker for this job + the pdf gen 4 factory service manual. I already knew this project was going to take longer than a month and even longer because I work 48 hours a week (evenings) and have 2 kids and a wife going to school full time (mornings). I did however took some pictures and videos of the swap. I will post them soon when I get everything arranged out. Oh, and sorry for the long story post.

[fabbb]

beer-2k. Keep the faith. After all this work it can get a bit dicouraging to have the result you did. Your ground wires will be fine where you had them installed. First, I would pull a plug, hook it back up to the plug wire, ground the body of the plug and turn the engine over. If you have spark the next thing I would suspect is fuel. How old is the fuel in the tank? Old gas has a special smell to it, but if you suspect the gas I would pull the rubber intake pipe off of the throttle body, open the throttle plate and carefully pour a small amount of known good gas into the throttle body. Hook everything back up and try to start the car. Of course there are other possibilities, but having done these two things and reporting back to the board will allow us to help you. Whenever I replace one of these, I replace the timing belt, because it is so easy to do with the engine out of the car. Did you? If you have good spark and good fresh gas down the throttle body doesn't change anything you might have a timing issue, so double check your timing marks on the crank and cam. Let us know how this turns out!
SteveB

[dc_98_cam]

One thing to try is buy a can of starter fluid ... as you turn the ignition key to start the engine, spray a blast or two of the starter fluid down the air intake. If the engine keeps running on the starter fluid, then the main problem is fuel related. Too much raw starter fluid can be a negative factor ... washing the lubrication from the cylinder walls, but a few sprays won't hurt, and should give you some indication as to where the difficulty is.

If starter spray doesn't give you any help, then you will have to consider the other factors, such as timing, spark, maybe compression.

I would say just be patient ... you will find it... whatever is wrong.

[Mike Gerber]

Originally Posted by dc_98_cam

One thing to try is buy a can of starter fluid ... as you turn the ignition key to start the engine, spray a blast or two of the starter fluid down the air intake. If the engine keeps running on the starter fluid, then the main problem is fuel related. Too much raw starter fluid can be a negative factor ... washing the lubrication from the cylinder walls, but a few sprays won't hurt, and should give you some indication as to where the difficulty is.

If starter spray doesn't give you any help, then you will have to consider the other factors, such as timing, spark, maybe compression.

I would say just be patient ... you will find it... whatever is wrong.

This is a good idea, but I found it is safer to use spray carb cleaner. The carb cleaner is less dangerous. Just make sure the carb cleaner says O2 safe somewhere on the can.

Mike

[beer-2k]

Today I didn't get much done. I went to start the car again before work and it started no problem. Still has the idling problem. I had kept my foot on the throttle and kept it between 1 and 2000 rpm for a minute or so. White smoke started coming out from the exhaust manifold. I figure it was just the grease and stuff burning off inside because there was not any white smoke coming from the muffler.

8 hours later after work, I come back and start her up again. No problem starting. This time she actually idle (. So I gave it a little gas and as soon as I let off the gas she died. So I wait a minute and start her up again. No go this time.

So I bought a can of 'sea foam'. I think I am going to use this in the fuel tank and a little through the air box. ??? I also bought a canOBD2 tester unit from walmart (INNOVA 3100 a). The check engine light was on when she idle so I think I am going to check what codes are coming up tomorrow.
(Generation 4 Factory Service Manual; Engine Mechanical 5S-FE; page EM-10)

Also, I think I am going to double check the EVAP hoses. There were 2 hoses that I took a wild guess at connecting. They came out from behind the air box case (Air Cleaner Case). The diagram on page EM-64 didn't really help (or maybe I didn't go over it good enough).

[beer-2k]

Originally Posted by fabbb

Whenever I replace one of these, I replace the timing belt, because it is so easy to do with the engine out of the car. Did you?

Yeah, I installed the timing belt with the and the other stuff with the engine out. Lines and dots match up perfectly every time I checked it.

[Eye8Pussies]

sounds like a number of things possible....vacuum leaks and also the IAC - Idle Air Control

since the engine turns over, you seem to be good. and the fact that the engine will stay running under throttle is also good. at this point, jam the throttle open so that the engine doesn't die, and spray throttlebody cleaner around to look for vacuum leaks. if you don't find any, then check the iac and see if it's giving enough air to keep the car idling


keep the faith...you'll figure it out eventually

[beer-2k]

UPDATE: Ok, so today I went and pour half of the "sea foam" stuff in the gas tank and started her up. The engine stayed idle but was a little rough. So I unclamped the intake hose before the throttle body and dripped a couple drops of sea foam in it. I could hear the vacuum lines sucking it in and instantly the engine stalled. So I go and start her up with the intake hose still off and amazingly she idle perfectly for 5 minutes. I rev the engine to about 2500 - 3000 to burn off the sea foam. White smoke came out from the exhaust manifold and the muffler. So then I turn on the AC to see if the fans run; fans run. Good. The temperature gauge was steady in the middle so far. So I blast the heat for a bit. Next I notice was the temp gauge started rising quick. So I turn off the engine. Smoke was coming from the exhaust manifold. I look underneath the car and there was a puddle of coolant dripping from one of the heater hose that goes in the firewall (the top hose was dripping coolant).

So what had happened last year when I started stripping the old motor out was that I had trouble getting that hose off. I had used a pair of plier and accidently smashed the pipe that the hose went in. When I hooked up the new hoses, I had to straighten out that pipe with pliers again. But it didn't go back to the rounded shape. It is kind of rounded square. (I should of just cut that hose off; but it was too late by the time I smashed it! ) I will unhook that hose and try to fix it again.

One thing leads to another. I hooked up the OBD2 digital reader and got one code; P0773 (Shift Solenoid E). I might start a new thread on this. Anyways thanks for the help troubleshooting my starting/idle problem guys.

[Mike Gerber]

Sometimes you can find a socket (or some other round shaped tool) just the right size for returning that pipe to it's round shape. Just don't break it, or you'll be replacing the heater core; not an easy task. Good luck.

"White smoke came out from the exhaust manifold and the muffler."

Smoke should not be coming out the exhaust manifold. Check for leaks there.

Mike