Please Help Idle Surge - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Turboman412 · 01-18-2008, 09:54 PM

hey everyone, i have been having this on going idle surge on warm starts after long trips. i cant seem to figure it out so i figured i would post and maybe get some ideas. alright back round on the car 00 camry 4cyl. the camry is on its second engine i purchased it when it had 104,500 now it has 118,000. i dont know the history of why the engine was replaced. history on the problem. its always happens when i take long drives or even short, hot start only idle surge if you let it idle it will keep bouncing for a while, if you put it in gear and drive away it will stablize and idle normal. things i have tried, first thought it was the iac, so i had a brandnew iac off an older mr2. installed it, origanl iac did not have fresh air tube, but the one i installed did and i just plugged it off. problem still present. swapped tps, problem still there. hooked up toyotas scan tools found no codes present. i actully recorded it surging. nothing looks abnormal map sensor was nice and steady, iac was jumping up and down and load was also. still have the recording if anyone would wanna reveiw it. i tried swapping map sensor, problem still happening i blocked off the vacum for the egr. idle still surging.swapped coolant temp sensor. and did efi service i recenty swapped ecus, it wasent the correct one i beleave, i had a code for air fuel sensor when it was hooked up. idle still surged last thing i tried was while it was surging i pinched off the break booster and it kept surging. i have also recently replaced plugs, wires and pcv all oem. im runnig out of ideas what could i try to diagnos it? maybe fuel pump? fuel Filter maybe? coil pack? ideas PLEASE!!!!

chronoti · 01-18-2008, 10:02 PM

surge = air leak

check the intake manfold gaskets and such.

dc_98_cam · 01-18-2008, 10:23 PM

^...Maybe get a spray can of starter fluid... a few sprays around the intake manifold to see if there is any difference in rpm ... probably have to try it with the engine hot if the problem is temperature dependent. ...maybe try it with engine cold too.... just to confirm.

Turboman412 · 01-19-2008, 06:48 PM

ok i will give it a try. i kinda doubt this could by my issue since its only on warm starts, somtimes but i am open to anything right now. thank you for the quick responds. any other ideas?

Turboman412 · 01-29-2008, 06:07 PM

hey everyone... well i guess im gunna need the best tech's here becouse i am now out of ideas..... i did just like you said spray around the gaskets and no idle change at all, ok so i played with the EGR valve thought maybe that could be the problem, went ahead and got an oem toyota EGR for 125.00 with gaskets it came out to. no go dident solve the problem. after all the info i gave you above... i beg you does anyone have any ideas for me? becouse i am out of them. i am so close to just driving it into a wall@!!!!!!!!
thank you for your help

dc_98_cam · 01-29-2008, 09:31 PM

OK ... just another idea .... Try removing the O2 sensor .... the one before the catalytic converter. Examine O2 sensor for dirt, oxide, or foreign matter that could interfere with the sensor performance. ... Not completely sure, but you might be able to take a fine wire brush to the sensor tip and clean it up ... without damaging it.
The idea here is that if there is some sort of debris interfering with the sensor output to the ECU, the ECU would therefore give an incorrect command to the fuel injectors to supply more fuel to the cylinders ...
If you have a scan tool ... you might take a look at the fuel trim parameters ... to see if they are fluctuating ... as the engine surges ...

Kep · 01-29-2008, 11:08 PM

Was the car running OK when you bought the car or has this symptom been going on since you bought the car? When they installed the replacement engine maybe they ms-matched the sensors and/or the ECU or modified it incorrectly.

I am big on cleaning the throttle body, EGR modulator, EGR, and IAC. You seem to have already touched on the EGR and IAC. Don't know if cleaning the modulator (don't forget the vacuum lines running to it) or the throttle body would help but it shouldn't hurt. Also check the air intake hose and resonator for cracks and leaks again.

Kep

Turboman412 · 01-30-2008, 12:19 PM

ok i will check the modulater later today. yes the car has been doing it since i purchased it. and i will relook over everything. but the intake exhaust everything apears to be swapped over from the old engine. i am also gunna pull the front 02 sensor out and take a look, you think there is any other way of testing the sensor instead of resistance? it just dosent make much sense to me that it only does it really on warm restarts. if i let the car sit and idle when cold it will run perfect.

dc_98_cam · 01-30-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turboman412

ok i will check the modulater later today. yes the car has been doing it since i purchased it. and i will relook over everything. but the intake exhaust everything apears to be swapped over from the old engine. i am also gunna pull the front 02 sensor out and take a look, you think there is any other way of testing the sensor instead of resistance? it just dosent make much sense to me that it only does it really on warm restarts. if i let the car sit and idle when cold it will run perfect.

... The O2 sensors are kind of delicate as far as any out of circuit testing ... You don't want to damage it ... so maybe just inspect visually for any sort of fouling or obvious contamination...One O2 sensor package specified to test only with a high impedance digital meter ... not one of the 3 or 4 dollar versions. ...
... The satisfactory cold start and unsatisfactory warm restart ought to provide a clue. The cold start implies that the open loop cold start sequence is not the problem ... That is the IAC and rotary solenoid ... and whatever else ... are probably okay. However, the closed loop idle sequence which takes over when the engine has warmed up a little is somehow not working correctly. This would indicate that there is a sensor .... someplace ... that is providing defective or incorrect signals to the ECU ....
So... all you have to do is guess which sensor input is the problem... maybe something that is temperature sensitive. ... Not sure why you are not getting any DTC codes to check out, though.
As far as something specific to try ... Do you have a spare air intake sensor?... Apparently, you have already changed the ECT sensor.
... Here is a better idea ... one of your vacuum servo valves might be sticking ... After you get the engine warmed up ... the VSV would have to move to a new position to accommodate the new conditions ... However, due to fouling or carbon buildup ... whatever .. the movement to the new position is not being smoothly executed. I would try VSV for EGR first ... if you have one available. There have been reports on the forum that the VSV for EGR is difficult to trouble shoot ... and requires replacement in order to achieve trouble free operation. ... Guessing that it is only marginally bad ... still able to function to some extent...

Turboman412 · 01-31-2008, 12:42 PM

ok well i do have an extra vsv around. took it out of a 98 cam that had a check enginelight on for an egr code. maybe i can trouble shoot using the one that came out of it. not sure or not if that was the problem but we replaced, the egr, filter and vsv. it might put a code but if the warm start up changes should i just go out and purchase a vsv? also if i were to unplug the first o2 and drive it for a day... i know i will get a check engine light but my question is will it help me determine if it is that sensor or not. and im not using a 2or3 dollar volt meter. i got a fluke 88. by the way thank you for so much input.

dc_98_cam · 01-31-2008, 02:05 PM

If you do have a spare VSV for EGR, then try that first....You might have to drive the vehicle a while to confirm there is a difference, with no additional problems.
If no success with VSV for EGR, then try a different O2 sensor .... observing what sort of physical condition you find on the sensor end of the original ... relatively clean, or fouled.
Due to the expense of these parts, you would probably just want to switch out used working parts .... until you are sure that you have solved the problem.