newbie lost in trouble shooting land - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

aldo_45030 · 01-19-2008, 06:31 PM

1994 5sfe automatic 225k showing. Started it up the other morning let it warm up everything fine went inside. Came out apprx 5 min later she had quit running and would not start back up. Cranks over just fine has spark, fuel in the rail, timing close as i can tell when not running. Now let me back up apprx 1 month ago had problems with missing at idle and throwing a #12 code. Ran some seafoam thru the tank and into the the top end. Must have cleaned out the system started to idle fine no problems. I unhooked the battery when checking fuel system possibly wiping out my code. If i check now the light just flashes a steady flash no pausing.
Is it possible the injectors are not firing? Plugs seem dry and clean. Tried to squirt starting fluid into the cylinders still no fire. I can pull a plug wire stick in a plug and there is spark ... nice and white. Seem to have good compression have not put a gage on it yet. Brought #1 up to TDC and marks were in the correct place, rotor button pointing at #1 on cap.

No clue how do i make or test the injectors to see if the are firing. I don't have a noid light any other way i have a ohm meter.

Please respond to aldo_45030@yahoo.com thanks to all in advance

I have not way to test fuel pressure need the banjo bolt adapter.
Any other clues

dc_98_cam · 01-19-2008, 07:10 PM

How did you use the starter fluid?
Maybe try removing the air filter insert ... then one or two sprays as you try to start the engine.
If the engine starts, and keeps going with starter fluid, then the problem is fuel related.
If the engine still does not start when you have sprayed starter fluid, then it is either compression or spark ... You seem to have checked the spark problem ...
What do you think?

aldo_45030 · 01-20-2008, 02:57 PM

tried starter fluid threw the intake and directly into the cylinders. Is it possible to have spark but not enough to fire? I know these motor have a problem with the distributors. Can this also be part of my code problem also?

And if the injectors were firing wouldn't plug be wet? Or could the dist. problem not allow the ecm to fire the injectors?
I plan on hitting the junkyard and picking up a dist. 1st than if that doesn't work an ecm would be next.

dc_98_cam · 01-20-2008, 03:06 PM

It might be worth the effort to remove the top timing belt cover, bring the crank pulley around to align the timing mark, and inspect the position of the cam pulley ... hole in cam pulley should be lined up with the notch mark on the block ... Also inspect the timing belt for cracks, stretching... When was the TB last replaced?
If it doesn't start with the starter fluid spray, then something is definitely wrong ....
Not sure about the minimum spark that is required, but I would try to see what else might be the problem.

aldo_45030 · 01-20-2008, 03:21 PM

pulled cover off and verified belt not broken, Brought #1 to TDC and removed dist cap , button was pointing at #1 on the cap. Based on that i was assuming timing was correct. Belt was changed approx 50K ago and looked good.

dc_98_cam · 01-20-2008, 03:30 PM

How old are the spark plug wires ... If you remove them to make a spark test with the plug grounded to the block, maybe you are disturbing them enough to make them work briefly ...
Can you borrow a compression tester from the auto store?

aldo_45030 · 01-20-2008, 03:42 PM

new wires, I have a compression gage just haven't check it yet, I think i will check the pick up coils in the dist first since they were part of the DTC code 12 i had. If the signals are off time for some reason that could throw if off.

dc_98_cam · 01-20-2008, 03:52 PM

DTC code #12 indicates a problem with the distributor or maybe the crank sensor.
Several post have described a problem with the coil that is not easily tested ... related to temperature or vibration ... The recommendation is just to replace the coil, and see if that fixes it, rather than try to test it ....
Maybe get a coil from the salvage yard to test and see if that is the problem.
... or maybe a distributor.
Could also be crank sensor ... if not break in wires, then that would require more elaborate testing equipment.
... Looking at p. 336 of I4 Mechanical section of repair manual.

aldo_45030 · 01-20-2008, 04:16 PM

Where is the crank sensor? I thought that was only on the V6

dc_98_cam · 01-20-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aldo_45030

Where is the crank sensor? I thought that was only on the V6

Also in I4 engine ... actual sensor is inside lower timing belt cover. There is a wire connector that runs up to a point somewhere below the alternator.
Not too sure about how you tell if it is defective or not...You would have to remove the crank pulley, and the lower timing belt cover to get to it.
There might be some information in the Gen 4 Diagnostic section of the repair manual ... probably the same part.

Dr Thunder · 01-21-2008, 08:39 AM

1) You checked all the fuses first right?

2) You couldn't get her to run after you tried starting fluid...right?

3) If the plugs are firing but they are dry then its fuel.

4) Seems like your fuel pump could be a suspect but then again it should be starting with the fluid if your comp is good and timing is set.

EDIT// forgot to mention to double check the firing order and make sure the plug wires are on the right plugs.

fabbb · 01-21-2008, 11:56 AM

DC 98 Cam. This is a Gen 3 Camry and does not have a crank sensor. Steve B

dc_98_cam · 01-21-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fabbb

DC 98 Cam. This is a Gen 3 Camry and does not have a crank sensor. Steve B

I might be wrong about the Gen 3 having a crank sensor ... thought I saw it mentioned in the DTC reference page. ... not necessarily correct.

Kep · 01-21-2008, 02:41 PM

I've never tried it but I understand that you should be able to touch the fuel injector when it is working and feel it. If you don't feel anything then, supposedly, it isn't working.

When you turn the key to accessory the dash indicator lights all come on. Does your Check Engine Light come on at this time?

Kep

aldo_45030 · 01-21-2008, 06:35 PM

I have an 94 it appears to have no sensor. I think the dist is my problem. Apparently they are a big problem went to the local junkyard and ....at they had at least 15-20 of my body style. ALL OF THE 2200 didn't have a dist except for one which had caught fire and melted everything. I couldn't believe it, the only other thing i am thinking since the plugs are dry and i have spark is the ECM maybe suspect as well. If the dist controls timing and spark and the ECM coordinates it all then if timing if off or dist is bad , a signal is not sent to the ecm calling for the trigger of the injectors thus no fuel and if the dist is bad the timing or strength of the spark could be weak ....

So who out there had a dist for sale reasonable.
Thanks again to all who have tried to help.

1 otherthing anyone have any advice on 2002-2004 Avalons?