Timing Help - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

MTToyota · 02-07-2008, 08:57 PM

I've got a 98 2.2L camry. I'm not having any luck with the timing. It all started at about 90k miles I changed the timing belt just because it was recommended. At about 125k car dies after getting off the interstate. Pull it apart water pump seized up and stripped/broke belt. Replaced belt, pulleys, tensioner, water pump, etc. Car didn't run as good went from 30 mpg to 18 mpg, would get a P0300, P0303, and P0304 codes, replaced everything involved with those cylinders and at 130k car dies again. Had a feeling the timing belt broke again and sure enough. Replaced everything again. Get it all put back together and it wont start. I've checked the timing marks on the two cams, the camshaft pulley, and lined #1 cylinder at TBC over and over again. Looked at pictures from other posts on the site and made sure everything was lined up.
I did have the cams off the first time the timing belt broke. Is it possible that the cams might not be lined up even though the timing marks do match up? I did do a compression test, #1 - 145, #2 - 145, #3 - 70, #4 - 20. When cylinder #1 is at TDC compression both valves should be closed and cylinder #4 the exhaust valves should be open and intakes closed?? The way it is right now, at #1 TDC compression, cylinder #1 all valves are closed and cylinder #4 has all valves closed. Cylinder #2 has the exhaust valves open and intakes closed, cylinder #3 has the exhausts closed and intakes open. Does anyone have any pictures of the cams showing where the lobes are supposed to be at when cylinder #1 is TDC at compression? I'm at a complete loss at what to do.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for any help.

dc_98_cam · 02-07-2008, 10:19 PM

When you have the crank pulley lined up with its timing mark, you also have to have the cam pulley lined up with the correct mark ... a hole in the cam pulley spoke will line up with a notch in the block. There are two possible marks for the cam pulley to line up with ... The correct one is the one that is more 'counterclockwise' ... If you line up the cam spoke hole with the mark that is closer to the 12 o'clock position .... that would not be right. Seems like the correct notch is around the 9 or 10 o'clock position.
Also, one thing to check before you tighten down the upper idler pulley tensioner bolt is the slack in the timing belt ... on either side of the cam pulley. Essentially, there will not be any looseness or slack in the timing belt on one side or the other of the cam pulley. There might be a slight deflection, but it will be symmetrical ... with respect to either side of the cam pulley. If there is noticeable slack, then you have probably installed the belt a notch or two off. Remove from the cam pulley, and readjust.
One minor detail, before the final upper idler pulley tightening down, is to follow the final procedure in the I4 Mechanical section of the repair manual ...Just so everything is according to the book.
What about the cam position sensor? Is it in the correct position and plugged in?
Not sure about the cam shaft installation...

haskandine · 02-07-2008, 10:49 PM

first thing is first. i would recommend going to your local toyota dealer and getting a factoy timing belt. toyotas are very sensative to aftermarket parts, ive seen aftermarket spark plugs cause misfires. the four cylinder t-belts have to be done correctly, which includes the right timing and tension on the belt. if the timing is off you will have some valves open when they should be closed, this is probably why you have low compression in some cylinders. put on the timing belt, you may have to move the belt forward or backward some. when timing the engine there are marks on the reluctor. the reluctor looks like a gear. there is a very small v shaped notch on it. the block will have a mark on it at the 11 o'clock position if i remember correctly. line them up. there is a hole in the cam gear, line that up with the mark on the backing plate behind the cam gear. make sure all the extra slack is on the t-belt tensioner side. here comes the tricky part. lift up on the tensioner so that you are taking up the excess slack from the belt. then tighten. then with a wrench or rachet and socket combo, rotate the t-belt by the cam gear bolt. try not to push to hard so you don't loosen the bolt. rotate gear 45 degress counter clock wise then clock wise to get the slack out of belt. with your hand pull up on the tensioner then loosen. while pulling the tensioner up rotate the t-belt counter clockwise about 30 degrees, then finally tighten t-belt tensioner. rotate t-belt 30 degrees clockwise back to original spot. check the marks on the crank and also on the cam gear. the marks on the reluctor can be off about half a tooth and no more. if off more, then there could be something wrong. put everything back together then start engine. give it some gas and listen to the t-belt. if it makes a whining noise then that means you are in the green. if you give it gas and it makes a flopping noise then you don't have enough tension on the belt. which means you have to take it all apart and take out all tension. if left flopping the belt well come loose. if you have any questions let me know.

MTToyota · 02-08-2008, 10:58 PM

dc_98_cam and haskandine thanks for the help. I'll see what I can do tomorrow.

MTToyota · 02-14-2008, 07:21 PM

Well I took it all apart and put it back together the way you described. I tried starting the car, took a little longer than normal and then started and idled fine a couple minutes then died when putting it in gear (automatic). Tried to start it again and wouldn't start. I put new plugs in and a new IAC (knew it was going bad before timing belt broke). Anyway tried to start the car after replacing the IAC last night and it started right up, idle sounded good then after about 4 minutes it starts running really rough and dies. Now car won't start turns over acting like it wants to start, could give it gas and keep cranking and it would start but when I let off the throttle it would die. I wait till today and try it, starts right up, idles fine then after 4-5 minutes runs bad and dies.
Any ideas? Thanks

dc_98_cam · 02-14-2008, 10:59 PM

When the engine starts cold, it is under the 'open loop regime' ... which means that the IAC and certain constant parameters are governing the air/fuel mixture. After the engine warms up for a few minutes, the 'closed loop' system takes over. This means that the sensors like the Engine Control Temperature Sensor ... ECT ...., Oxygen Sensor, Crank Sensor, and others are sending real time data to the ECU, which generates an appropriate signal for the fuel injectors.
Are you able to determine if there are any CEL codes at this time... using a scan tool?
This might give a clue as to which sensor is the problem.
Would you say that the cold start RPMs and general cold start has improved over what it was? Did the new IAC seem to make a difference?
Have you ever replaced the oxygen sensor ... the one in front of the catalytic converter?

Stillrunning · 02-15-2008, 06:46 AM

I would try to determine if it is stalling because of too little gas or too much gas. Maybe it's coming off cold start cycle too early (lean) or too late (rich). I would check the ECT.

MTToyota · 02-18-2008, 09:37 AM

The car didn't have any codes in the computer. Installing the new IAC did help it start but didn't run more than a few minutes. I did another compressions test still to find that cylinders 3 & 4 are very low. I removed the head yesterday to find that a couple valves on those two cylinders look out of place, they appear to be smaller (than cylinders 1 & 2) and don't seat correctly. The head was rebuilt about 9 months ago, so that would probably explain the problems I had with the car since it was fixed before. So now I'll be talking to the machine shop that did the head.