Test your knowledge here! 92 won't start - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

icculusjrx · 02-25-2008, 08:06 PM

Hey everybody, I have been reading non-stop on your forum for the last week trying to figure out what is wrong with my wife's car.

1992 Camry 2.2L with 105,000 miles. Car hasn't had any problems until a couple of weeks ago when it wouldn't start in the morning. That night it was about 14 below 0 and she only had about a third of a tank of gas in it. I put some Heet in it and tried starting it several times for a couple of days. It would have been nice if it was simply some frozen or wet gas, but alas that is not the problem.

In order, this is what has been done: added gas, added Heet, added more gas to dilute the Heet, checked to see if there was spark, checked EFI fuse, replaced fuel filter, replaced fuel pump, checked compression, replaced spark plugs, replaced wires, replaced distributor cap, replaced distributor rotor, replaced EFI main relay.

The car is at my mechanic friend's house, and he has been helping me through all of this. He is completely stumped too. The original fuel pump was getting about 40 lbs of pressure, and the replaced one is getting about 60. Logically we figured that was the culprit, but it is not. After it was installed the car started and ran enough to go get some lunch, but it started to stall on the way home.

The distributor cap had a spot on the inside from an arc, so that was a likely culprit too. It wasn't. All four cylinders are right around 175-180 of compression.

The symptoms are really weird right now. Sometimes it will just crank over and over without starting, and sometimes it will start but will stall out as soon as the gas pedal is depressed. After it stalls it will not start again. If it does start you can turn it off and get it to start immediately, but if you wait for half an hour to let it cool down, it will not start again.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions, sorry for the long post but I wanted to make sure everyone was well informed.

Thanks,
Jeff

xtremeskier97 · 02-25-2008, 08:54 PM

Wow...definitely sounds like spark/gas issues...but youve replaced soo much already. Im wondering if there is something in the bottom of the tank that is clogging up your fuel pump/fuel lines? Is there a drain plug on our tanks? If so...you might think about draining it and see what comes out.

uibalnme · 02-25-2008, 10:09 PM

What is the condition of the coil? Looks like you've replaced everything but the coil.

dc_98_cam · 02-25-2008, 10:12 PM

IAC ...idle air control solenoid ...seems to stick sometimes.
You have I4 ... but look at this ....
Hard cold starts

icculusjrx · 02-25-2008, 10:22 PM

The coil hasn't been checked, or the idle air control solenoid. The solenoid does sound interesting.

I didn't mention that the gas was drained and fresh gas was put in. I figured I could leave some of the stuff out, it was getting a little wordy.

I will try to see if I can do those things tomorrow, thanks for the advice and I will update.

Kep · 02-26-2008, 12:40 PM

When you turn the key on to accessory and the dash lights light up does the CEL light light up (it should)?

Kep

ShawnM · 02-26-2008, 12:55 PM

The idle air contol can be easily bypassed by holding the gas pedal down a little. Its a very rare failure part though. The most common failure on that generation is the ignition coil.

xtremeskier97 · 02-26-2008, 01:40 PM

I totally read what you have done to the distributor wrong...for some reason I thought that you said you have replaced it. Id DEFINITELY look into that.

icculusjrx · 02-26-2008, 01:55 PM

This is what the car is doing today: the coil is fine, there is plenty of spark and no play in the distributor shaft. It seems to be a fuel issue when the car gets to operating temp and then cools down for an hour.

This morning the car fired up with no hesitation at all. We would turn the car off and start it back up a minute later and again no hesitation. Giving it gas would increase the rpms as it normally would. We let the car warm up for about half an hour and then let it sit for one hour. After sitting for an hour it would not start, just turn over and over. It is still getting spark, but when we pull the plugs they are bone dry.

My mechanic friend doesn't think it is the IAC because the car will self regulate the idle speed after a few minutes of warming up. He also doesn't think it would be the ECT sensor (engine coolant temperature) because the plugs aren't wet at all. The next thing he wants to do is set the fuel pressure gauge in line to see if it is getting fuel pressure when it starts normally versus when it sits for an hour and doesn't start. He seems to think it is some other part in the fuel pump assembly that is malfunctioning.

Does anything jump out at you that we are missing? Would a bad ECT sensor cause these symptoms and not let any fuel get to the plugs? Does anybody know how to test this without replacing it? I obviously am hoping it is the ECT instead of something else that is more complicated and more expensive.

Thanks,
Jeff

xtremeskier97 · 02-26-2008, 02:08 PM

Injectors...have you had them tested/cleaned? Testing the fuel pressure as your friend wants to is a good idea.

icculusjrx · 02-26-2008, 02:20 PM

He tested the injectors with a meter and thinks they are working fine, but they haven't been cleaned. Testing the fuel pressure when idling and when it won't start may tell us whether it is something faulty with the fuel pump assembly, but will it rule anything else out?

Does anybody still think it is the IAC or ECT?

dc_98_cam · 02-26-2008, 03:33 PM

There is a chart ...see Gen 4 Diagnostic Section ...giving basic parameters...temp...resistance for the ECT ...measure ambient temp...resistance. Even though you have Gen 3 ...it's the same part.
ECT might be erroneously signaling to ECU that lean Air/Fuel is required ...
If problems are temp related ....it might be ECT.

If not related to temp...might be O2 sensor...

ShawnM · 02-26-2008, 03:56 PM

Sounds like an old vapor lock issue but thats not very likely on fuel injected cars. Definatly put a pressure gauge on it so you can see whats happening when it acts up.

Fruitbat · 02-26-2008, 04:16 PM

I had this EXACT problem on my 2nd gen (3S-FE). It killed me for WEEKS, stumped mechanics with 20+ years experience.

It ended up being the Water (coolant) temp. sensor [the one for the ECU, NOT NOT NOT for the dash, the 3S-FE has 2, not sure about your 5S-FE. It was sending a signal that the engine was hot when it was cold, and cold when it was hot, and also randomly sending the correct information.
So when it was cold, the sensor said hot and didn't give the engine enough gas
And when it was hot, it said it was cold, and turned on the Cold Start injector, and ran so rich that it died.
And it would also randomly run fine when the sensor decided to work.

Long shot, but I'm sure glad someone told me it was a possibility 3 years ago.

After a $2 trip to the wrecker and I was golden.

xtremeskier97 · 02-26-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruitbat

I had this EXACT problem on my 2nd gen (3S-FE). It killed me for WEEKS, stumped mechanics with 20+ years experience.

It ended up being the Water (coolant) temp. sensor [the one for the ECU, NOT NOT NOT for the dash, the 3S-FE has 2, not sure about your 5S-FE. It was sending a signal that the engine was hot when it was cold, and cold when it was hot, and also randomly sending the correct information.
So when it was cold, the sensor said hot and didn't give the engine enough gas
And when it was hot, it said it was cold, and turned on the Cold Start injector, and ran so rich that it died.
And it would also randomly run fine when the sensor decided to work.

Long shot, but I'm sure glad someone told me it was a possibility 3 years ago.

After a $2 trip to the wrecker and I was golden.

Wow...thanks for sharing that. Definitely good to know.