Starter Removal Question ('95 LE, I4) (with pictures)

[Heat]

I’ve been having some electrical issues lately and have the problem narrowed down to either a bad wire between the battery and the starter, or a bad starter. What is happening is that more and more frequently when I try to start the car there would be a single click, then the car would be completely dead. I’d fiddle with the gear shift or the battery wires and pretty soon the car would be fully powered. When the car was finally started it would run just fine, no problems at lights or anything else. Only when I would try to restart it. And I also had the battery checked out by Autozone, the battery was fine.

Anyway, I was trying to remove the starter to have it checked out. I removed the two bolts circled in red in Picture #1 (long, maybe 5 inches each?) but there is a connection holding the starter down, it’s a wire coated with rubber. It’s the circled (boxed) part in Picture #2 which was taken from beneath it.

Am I removing the wrong bolts? In the starter removal instructions from the file st.pdf it says to “remove the 2 bolts and the starter”, those were the only two bolts I saw. Then again, the only thing coming out is the cylinder about the size of a can of beer.

Another question – the local Toyota dealer quoted me a price of $62 for the wire between the battery and the starter, as well as $25 more for the terminal at the battery end (the thing that slides over the battery post). Is there something special about this wire that I should just bite the proverbial bullet, or would an $8 wire from Autozone work just as well?

Thumbnails:

[Mike Gerber]

It looks like you are removing the 2 bolts from the solenoid portion of the starter, not the starter itself. (More on the solenoid in a moment.) The starter is the bigger cylinder shaped thing the solenoid is sitting on. First, disconnect the negative battery cable. From memory, the starter will be held in place by 2 14MM hex head bolts. Remove those 2 bolts and all the electrical connections leading to the starter itself. Then snake the starter out. It will be a bit heavy, but it shouldn't be too hard to get it out of there. If you are not sure of what I am talking about, go down to your local auto parts store and ask them to show you a rebuilt starter for your car.

Now back to the solenoid. Your problem sounds like the common worn starter solenoid contacts problem. This has been covered numerous times on this forum. Do a search here for "starter contacts" and read up on the problem.

Mike

[Heat]

From a thread from last June (emphasis added):

Originally Posted by Mike Gerber

The starter and solenoid are sold as a 1 piece unit on your Camry and also on most cars today.

toyocam99 is correct, you can tap the starter with a hammer or a wrench while someome holds the key in the start position and if it then starts, you have varified you have the common "starter solenoid contact problem". You can if you choose, just replace the starter's solenoid contacts. They are available at the dealer. Here's a thread that will walk you through the process:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=166530

Mike

I now see that this is a relatively common problem. I wish that I had known about the hammer trick earlier, it would have told me whether the wire or the starter contacts were the problem. The thread that was referenced in the quote no longer has pictures, by any chance do you know of any starter contact walk-throughs with pictures?

With regard to buying the contacts, I called my local Toyota dealer and they said that they couldn't sell the contacts by themselves and that a replacement starter would cost about $280. Do dealers still sell the contacts by themselves and this guy just didn't realize it? If so, what's a rough price on the contacts by themselves and do you have a part number?

Thanks for your help!

[toyomoho]

Do a TN history search on solenoid contacts, there have been posts stating who sells these separately. You are not the first to ask.

You can also buy just the solenoid as a separate unit.

Any decent auto parts store should be able to get a new starter or solenoid at much cheaper prices then the dealer.

[Heat]

OK, I got sidetracked last week but I’m back to getting my Toyota up and running again.

Here are the contacts on my starter, the one on the left (the smaller one) has virtually no wear on it and the bigger one on the right, circled in red, has a decent sized groove in it (more than 1 mm). I’m assuming that the smaller one is the positive one since it has a wire going into it and the bigger one is the negative one since there is no wire.

Does anybody know the part number of the one on the right? It’s a ’95 Camry LE, 4-cylinder.

At this point I’m looking at switching out this one contact as well as changing out the terminal clamp on the positive terminal and the cable from the battery to the starter (part number 82123-33020 for the cable, and part numbers 90982-05035 and 90179-08146 for the terminal clamp / nut).

Thumbnail:

[Heat]

Anybody know what the part number is for the contact circled in red?

Really, I’ve searched quite a bit and have found quite a bit, but not this one crucial piece of information. I know that I could go to a starter shop locally and buy the part, or to Autozone, or the junkyard, etc etc, but I really do want to buy the part from Toyota. It’s not that expensive of a part and there is a handful of other items I will be picking up at the same time so shipping isn't really an issue ( www.toyotapartsales.com --> great prices but their search engine is very poor).

I really, really want to get this starter put back together and get this car running again. All I need is the correct part number. Thanks!

Here are some different part numbers just to show how many choices there are out there. I just need the one contact but of course want to make sure I order the right one.

Starter contact kits (8mm ID hole):

Ace Electric # S-5263 (only two contacts)
Ace Electric # S-5264 (only two contacts)
Metro # 66-82104 (only two contacts) (www.metroautoinc.com ,Pomona,California)
Toyota # 28226-72010/80 (battery side)(also1KZTE-2LT-1KZT)
Toyota # 28226-72080 (8808-9108)
Toyota # 28226-16130 (9108-9308)
Toyota # 28226-55050 (9308-9511)
Toyota # 28226-70040 (9308-9511)
Toyota # 28226-72040 (motor side if needed)
Toyota # 28226-72010 (8808-9511)
Toyota # 28226-74070 (9108-9511)

For others besides 22R series:

Toyota # 28226-54220 (motor side) (2LTE, 3L..LN13# IKZTE, 2L#, KZN130,LN108,112,85..4FC)
Toyota # 28226-54250 (Diesel Surf 2.4TD, contains a new end cover and gasket)
Toyota # 28226-54320 (battery side) (2LTE, 3L..LN13# IKZTE, 2L#, KZN130, LN108,112,85..4FC,3B-1HZ-BJ73-HZJ7#-1KZT-KZJ70)
Toyota # 28226-17030 (battery side) (1H#-HDJ80-HZJ80)
Toyota # 28226-56250 (battery side) (3B-1HZ-1PZ-PZJ7#)

Starter contacts only (8mm ID hole):

Ace Electric # S-5231
Ace Electric # S-5293 (crescent moon shape)
Ace Electric # S-5295 (crescent moon shape)
Metro # 66-82106 (www.metroautoinc.com ,Pomona,California)
Tons more at:
http://www.metroautoinc.com/PDF%20Fi...%20Contact.pdf
Toyota # 28226-70040
Wilson’s Electric # 45-29-652

[Kep]

A while back, TercelGTS did a great DIY on this: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t27312.html

Unfortunately, the pictures are gone. He does offer to get contacts so he can probably help you if you PM him. Hopefully, he's still around. He might even repost his pictures.

Kep

[duke_togo]

I think you might be creating more of a headache for yourself trying to get this part from Toyota. I replaced the contacts and plunger in starters for a Camry and a Corolla (following TercelGTS's instructions) in the past few years and it was a breeze to walk into a local starter/alternator shop and pick up the parts (IIRC < $10).

[Heat]

My car is running again, the problem was solved. It turned out to be the battery's positive terminal clamp.

With regard to the contact part numbers, it's part number 28226-16130 for the positive side and I believe 28226-74070 for the negative side. Positive side MSRP = $14.20, I paid $9.70 at www.toyotapartsales.com .

(thumbnail)


But after I ordered that part as well as some other parts I had read duke_togo's post and decided to see what my local alternator/starter shop said. For $25 they replaced the contacts and flipped / reground the plunger, then reassembled everything and tested it. I reinstalled the starter but the car still wouldn't start. I then replaced the battery's negative cable / terminal clamp and the positive terminal clamp, at this point the car started up great.

Here's the terminal clamp, MSRP = $16.20 ($11.79 at the site I listed above):



To make a long story short, I ended up spending about $80 but have a starter in great shape, new negative battery cable, and new terminal clamps.

As a sidenote, in the process of checking prices, I also realized that my local Toyota dealer has about a 15% to 25% markup on parts over MSRP.

[Heat]

The same problem happened about a week ago - the car was running great and no noticible loss of power, then when I went to restart it it was just dead, wouldn't even turn over. The voltage on the battery with the car turned off was 10.0 volts, for comparison sake the voltage on my Honda's battery with the car turned off was 12.5V.

This time I replaced the battery (the old one was about four years old) and took the alternator in to a shop, they tested it and said it didn't work, then retested it and said it was working. They replaced something on it which is what they said was the only thing that could cause intermittent problems (the conductor?).

Hopefully it was either the alternator or the battery.

At this point I've replaced the battery, had an automotive electric shop change the starter solenoid contacts / regrind the plunger, had them check out the alternater and replace the only part that apparently could cause intermittent problems, I've replaced the negative battery terminal wire and I've replaced the positive battery terminal clamp.

[freeyellow2000]

with all do regards,..... don;t throw away your money ...... just use a couple pennies (may sure they pre 1980 as those made with copper.


I would first start cleaning the contact and bring it to a local kragens, pepboys, autozone and have them to have them check it to see if it the fix work before installing it back just to find out it didn't work.....

[96CamryLE]

The same thing is happening to me.

I purchased a new in factory bag OEM ground cable (part # 82123-33020) for $11.99 off of Ebay, with shipping it was $15. I bought this because my ground wires have been cut and an aftermarket terminal end (one of them cheapies) was installed. Also, the smaller wire was missing half of it's thickness and there just isn't enough wire length for me to cut it and make it right. I received it yesterday.

Now after reading your inspiring post I bought an OEM Positive clamp that you had listed below or above. I picked it up for $6.50 with free shipping, part number (that I took off the bag your new one came in:
90982-05035

I guess I saved some cash. I hope to see it next week.

I must have lucked out to get them that cheap since I do not see them any more at that price at the current time.

Here are my 2 auctions:

Terminal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290287867703&ssPageNam e=ADME:B:EOIBSA:MT:11


Cable:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220326089721&ssPageNam e=ADME:B:EOIBSA:MT:11

I hope this works, it runs great, just takes about 3-5 hits of the key and it fires right up. *(NOTE: I haven't installed the cable or cable end yet, that is why it is taking me 3-5 hits to start the car, just to clear up any questions)

Is your car still working excellent?

Thank you for your walkthrough.

Take care,

J.

Originally Posted by Heat

My car is running again, the problem was solved. It turned out to be the battery's positive terminal clamp.

With regard to the contact part numbers, it's part number 28226-16130 for the positive side and I believe 28226-74070 for the negative side. Positive side MSRP = $14.20, I paid $9.70 at www.toyotapartsales.com .

(thumbnail)


But after I ordered that part as well as some other parts I had read duke_togo's post and decided to see what my local alternator/starter shop said. For $25 they replaced the contacts and flipped / reground the plunger, then reassembled everything and tested it. I reinstalled the starter but the car still wouldn't start. I then replaced the battery's negative cable / terminal clamp and the positive terminal clamp, at this point the car started up great.

Here's the terminal clamp, MSRP = $16.20 ($11.79 at the site I listed above):



To make a long story short, I ended up spending about $80 but have a starter in great shape, new negative battery cable, and new terminal clamps.

As a sidenote, in the process of checking prices, I also realized that my local Toyota dealer has about a 15% to 25% markup on parts over MSRP.

[96CamryLE]

Well I finally fixed the problem...it wasn't the positive cable or the ground cable (though the new factory cable looks 10 times better than the garbled up chevy looking thing that was there).

Anyways it was the damn starter, I bought one off of Ebay New not refurbished for $98 bucks. That beats the hell out of Autozone or Oreillys.

Originally Posted by 96CamryLE

The same thing is happening to me.

I purchased a new in factory bag OEM ground cable (part # 82123-33020) for $11.99 off of Ebay, with shipping it was $15. I bought this because my ground wires have been cut and an aftermarket terminal end (one of them cheapies) was installed. Also, the smaller wire was missing half of it's thickness and there just isn't enough wire length for me to cut it and make it right. I received it yesterday.

Now after reading your inspiring post I bought an OEM Positive clamp that you had listed below or above. I picked it up for $6.50 with free shipping, part number (that I took off the bag your new one came in:
90982-05035

I guess I saved some cash. I hope to see it next week.

I must have lucked out to get them that cheap since I do not see them any more at that price at the current time.

Here are my 2 auctions:

Terminal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290287867703&ssPageNam e=ADME:B:EOIBSA:MT:11


Cable:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220326089721&ssPageNam e=ADME:B:EOIBSA:MT:11

I hope this works, it runs great, just takes about 3-5 hits of the key and it fires right up. *(NOTE: I haven't installed the cable or cable end yet, that is why it is taking me 3-5 hits to start the car, just to clear up any questions)

Is your car still working excellent?

Thank you for your walkthrough.

Take care,

J.