Shuttering chugging problem 95 Camry

[solocus]

Hope someone has some thoughts on this but it seems to be a strange one. My car is a 95 Camry, 130K. Upon acceleration it stutters like it is bogging with fuel, but it seems to not be engine related, more like something out of balance or transmission issues. I did plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and cleaned the Throttle body. When cold it seems fine until it warms up. From 0 to 30mph seems ok during heavy acceleration. From 30 to 60 mph it starts chugging a bit. At 65 to 70mph even the slightest acceleration seems to cause the chugging affect. In the past it seemed to just do this between 65-80mph with 70 being the limit before it felt really bad and I thought it may be tire balance (tires are wearing fine). It does not seem like a miss but more of an imbalance of something. I'm stumped and thinking it may be dealer time Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Mike

[solocus]

bump

[toyomoho]

Can you clarify "chugging." Does the car accelerate OK, shift OK?

Is the frame shaking, a vibration in the seat or steering wheel? When this chugging occurs what happens when you let off the gas pedal?

[Kep]

I tend to think it has something to do with your emission control system. My first suspect is the EGR system. The easiest thing to do is pull the EGR valve and clean it (will need to gently scrape off the carbon residue. Chemicals help on light build up). Check the vertical tube that it sits on as well (if this is clogged you need to do some more careful cleaning). Verify that the vacuum tubes to the EGR valve are clear also. If this doesn't work you may want to get a vacuum gauge and measure the vacuum at the EGR valve at different temps and RPMs to verify correct operation. Otherwise you can verify the operation of the vacuum control valves and the integrity of the various vacuum hoses.

Generally, I expect a cold transmission to be more troublesome than a hot one, however, I can't justify my thinking.

If it isn't the EGR there are other sensors that the ECM relies on to adjust the engine combustion. These would need to be checked out next.

Luck,
Kep

[solocus]

Originally Posted by toyomoho

Can you clarify "chugging." Does the car accelerate OK, shift OK?

Is the frame shaking, a vibration in the seat or steering wheel? When this chugging occurs what happens when you let off the gas pedal?

It feels like something is out of balance, but what kind of out of balance issue only occures under load and goes away when you let off the gas? It also seems to not happen until a little bit warmed up, but it is hard to tell since I cant really but a good load on it in the neighborhood. It seems the worse when doing 60 and accelerating to 70/75.

I have not checked the EGR yet, but thanks for you recommendations. Any other ideas?

[Kep]

Originally Posted by toyomoho

Is the frame shaking, a vibration in the seat or steering wheel? When this chugging occurs what happens when you let off the gas pedal?

I'm with toyomoho, how do you sense/experience the chugging? Do you feel it in your seat, your hands, your foot while applying the brakes or do you hear something?

I had one other far out thought. I noticed your 130,000 miles. Did this start up right after getting your timing belt changed? I've heard of the harmonic balancer being damaged. You might notice a vibration from that. I have no idea how to check it or even if it would cause these symptoms.

Kep

[solocus]

Sorry for not addressing this thread earlier. I have not checked/cleaned the EGR yet. I did take it into the dealer over the weekend and they said it was the tires. Well I now have a brand new set of Yokohamas and the vibration/miss is still there like it always was. I did get an alignment performed also.

I'll try to answer some questions as best I can.

The problem did not start after the Timing belt change. It started probably at about 100K and has gotten ever so slightly worse from this time. I doubt it is the Harmonic Balancer because it only occures under load at higher speeds not RPMs. Like I said I can accelerate hard with four people in the car and all feels fine until 45mph or so.

Emission controls could be related to the problem. It kind of feels like a cylinder not firing again. The tach is smooth during this problem. The speedometer is smooth as well, so a "chattering" transmission may be unlikely as well.

I feel the problen thrugh the floor (pulsing feeling), pedal (pulsing feeling), and by sound (sounds like a cylinder is not firing.

Anyway, I told the dealer I would bitch if this didn't fix it and i would not be happy. So I have a call in with them now and wee will see what they do next.

Oh, I took in on a 1600 mile trip last week and averaged 33 hwy. I had to drive slower than normal to avoid the "vibration issue" so I did 65mph avg rather than 70mph. Other than the vibration/miss issue at speed under load, the car seems to run and shift great.

[Kep]

You said that it only happens under load and is more noticable at higher speeds. Does this mean that when you're running at vibration speed and you let off the gas it quits vibrating immediately?

Kep

[solocus]

Originally Posted by Kep

You said that it only happens under load and is more noticable at higher speeds. Does this mean that when you're running at vibration speed and you let off the gas it quits vibrating immediately?

Kep

Yes, the vibration/miss is gone as soon as a no load condition exists. The feeling is thru the pedal and car body, no so much at all thru the steering wheel. It pulls strong from 0-45, nicely shifting thru the gears. I tried a lower gear (2 vs D) and it still has the problem at 45+ mph under load. I'm thinking it is probably not the transmission.

Not really knowing the Camry's setup, I'm thinking maybe CV joint, Bent/unbalanced axle (if this is possible). Ignition spark breaking down/coil (I would have thought this wound be more noticable at any MPH), Injectors (seems unlikely since it pulls good below 45 MPH), Clogged Cat (Not sure what a clogged cats symptoms are). May be Emissions equipment (I know very little about that)

I guess what is really throwing me is how when less than 45mph it does not happen, yet there has to be a load (some acceleration) on the vehicle for the vibration/miss to occur.

[GRANDE,GRANDE!!]

Oh my ...

This sounds identical to whats happening to me:

V6 96' Shuttering Problem

Take a look and tell me if you are experiencing the same symptoms as my car?

I'd just like to make sure these are similar problems, and tell me what you have done to deal with it.

Appreciate feedback.

[Kep]

No particular cures in mind but it seems that this is related more to RPMs than speed. Does your state have an annual emissions test? Could you post the results from the last one? Since you were able to drop it into 2nd and it occured at a slower speed it would seem to me that the CVC joints, wheels and other speed related parts would be exonerated. Not positive but I believe the transmission would also be unlikely.

While I'm not sure of it I would still go ahead and clean out your emission control system. Check the air hose for cracks (or squeeze it with the engine running - that usually has an affect if it is cracked). The EGR and modulator are easy to clean and often help. If you remove the throttle body to access the EGR you could also clean the IAC beneath the throttle body (though it isn't a likely culprit) It isn't too hard to do and it is cheap if you clean it yourself. Clean the PCV valve. There are others but do these first and let us know. It's a process.

Kep

[solocus]

Well I got it figured out. I took it to the Toyota Dealer and they diagnosed it as tires. My front tires were only 7 months old (maybe ever so slight saw toothing on them) and the rear were shot so I went with their advice for new tires and an alignment. This fixed nothing related to the vibration, but it did improve the ride as all new tires will. So I had this done just before leaving on a 41 day business trip. I got back this Wednesday and broke the news to my Toyota Dealer. They, the service counter person and the mechanic, went for a ride to feel it again. This time they said it was a transmission mount. I then decided to hit two other Toyota Dealers in town and one said his guess was the axle/CV Joint. So I get home and "Google" vibration, Camry and read a few articles and my symptoms are described perfectly by many. It seems it is the alxe/CV Joint if the vibration range is between 40 and 60 mph and only under accelleration even if only very slight acceleration.

So I go back to my Toyota Dealer and he is still leaning towards the Trans mount. He even calls their "Master Mechanic" and he is doubtful it is the axle/CV joint(s) because the normal test to find a bad one is turn to full sterring wheel lock and listen for clicking while driving in circles. I had no clicking so he thought this was very unlikely. I priced the axle and it was $700 a side at the Dealer. On my way home I decided to stop by my favorite local mechanic and see how much he wanted to do both axles. He was $400 out the door for both with new aftermarket parts. It might have only been $200, but the first axle replaced was not the offending one (murphy here of course!) but the longer, second one was it. He would have done that first, but he said it looked like the other had been replaced in the past so he chose the short one. So despite spending $400 I'm happy I'm not dropping another $150 for a trans mount and it all fixed and driving smooth as it ever has! I hope this helps someone else.

[strat13132004]

Originally Posted by solocus

Hope someone has some thoughts on this but it seems to be a strange one. My car is a 95 Camry, 130K. Upon acceleration it stutters like it is bogging with fuel, but it seems to not be engine related, more like something out of balance or transmission issues. I did plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and cleaned the Throttle body. When cold it seems fine until it warms up. From 0 to 30mph seems ok during heavy acceleration. From 30 to 60 mph it starts chugging a bit. At 65 to 70mph even the slightest acceleration seems to cause the chugging affect. In the past it seemed to just do this between 65-80mph with 70 being the limit before it felt really bad and I thought it may be tire balance (tires are wearing fine). It does not seem like a miss but more of an imbalance of something. I'm stumped and thinking it may be dealer time Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Mike

I had a similar problem it would shake after 45mph changed a bunch of stuff It was the CV joints.Under a load more torque after 45mph

[strat13132004]

anyone know where I can get a list of error codes for a 95 camry?