Fuel Injectors

[RichieRichJP]

I don't want to pay an outrageous amount for something like 'HKS' but I don't want to go too cheap. I plan on getting a set of 1000cc RC Engineering injectors. Is that a good company or not? Anyone know? Any suggestions?
Thanks

[Venom_5]

what in the world do you need 1000cc for? ... i didnt even think Tony had those

edit:
i was right, Tony has Sound Performance 720cc injectors ... and that was on his big single turbo setup

[Luckynumber5]

Thats too much injector, you will have a hard time at low duty cycle. Idle will probably suck. If you want big injectors go with a multi-injector setup ie one set of 440 cc injectors on the stock location and one set of 600+ in a new location, you will have the 440cc injectors for idle and low boost driving, then when you need the extra fuel the engine management can start opening the larger injectors.

For the sake of simplicity get the car running on the stock injectors with whatever fuel management you are using, then install some larger injectors. That way the only thing you have to worry about is working on the fuel support instead of slapping huge injectors in there and guessing as to why the car won't run for dammit.

[Venom_5]

^ definitely dont use stock ... he has a 5S-FE, right?

get some of the RX-7 injectors that fit right in for starters, then maybe bump it up once you see how it runs on a dyno

[RichieRichJP]

Reason being that the GT35R requires a 1000cc/min for max efficiency as far as I know. Even when I run the numbers at witch hunters it says the same thing (unless I plugged the numbers in wrong). I want to buy the injectors I need to run what I have rather than playing with others and dishing out more money where it's not needed.
I don't think I'll be running anywhere near stock injectors on a 500hp turbo lucky :p I'll be running the AEM EMS with sequential injection. Apart from the custom lines, I'll be running a SX Performance FPR and Fuel Pump. The pump is as good as running two 255lph Walbro pumps.

... Just checked again at witch hunters, 1000cc/min

[Venom_5]

which GT35?

for example ... with a 5S-FE using a GT3528R 82mm 56 Trim .7 A/R ... you will be out of the turbo's efficiency for most of your RPM range

[Luckynumber5]

I said get it running on the stock injectors.

Not run it on stock injectors

reason I say not to go with 4 large injectors if you want 1000cc is because you will have a hell of a time getting the engine management system to control them since the pulse width needed to inject an amount of fuel to idle and drive normally is going to be incredibly small, so small the engine management may not be able to do it! You could get stuck with a setup where the minimum amount of fuel you can inject is still way too rich and the injector cant pulse properly so you get a terrible mixture.

If you want a 1000+cc capable fuel system go with staged injection.


Edit: you also realize that making a 4 cylinder run a gt-35 to its max efficiency is not a simple thing? Shoot for a running turbo setup before you push the sky.

[RichieRichJP]

Originally Posted by Venom_5

which GT35?

for example ... with a 5S-FE using a GT3528R 82mm 56 Trim .7 A/R ... you will be out of the turbo's efficiency for most of your RPM range

The site I got it from says
GT35R/GT3076R
Wheel: 56.5mm w/ 90 trim
Housing: .64

Lucky, I get what you're saying... I'll ask around and do more research about it and consider running something smaller..

thanks guys

[Venom_5]

^ yea, thats what i said ...

with the 5S, you will be way off the compressor map at anything under like 4000 rpm ... and you will just be getting towards the center of its 80% efficiency by 8k rpm

edit: ill check out that turbo u listed if i can find it

you could run 12-15 psi on the GT3076R, and you would be within its max efficiency range right around 6k rpm ... but its gonna give you hell trying to get that thing running i bet because you cross over the surge line at about 3500 rpm

dont think it will be impossible ... its just a lot of work to get a 2.2L engine to put down high numbers and spool a medium sized Garrett

[RichieRichJP]

http://www.atpturbo.com/root/index.htm
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=BCS

[Luckynumber5]

See the thing is cars like a subaru or an evo come turbocharged. They are already running and swapping the turbo out is a little more streamlined.

On a non turbo car like a Camry, it was never designed to have a turbocharger in the engine bay. You may or may not run into problems like assembling the setup and finding out the exhaust piping is too close to the oil pan or the ac compressor, or that the inter cooler piping will only work with the turbo oriented in a different position than you anticipated. (both have happened to me with the celica)

I would do this:

start with a running car (ie driveable)

fit the turbocahrger and all oil/coolant lines to it, then make sure there is a path for the exhaust piping, and a path for the intercooler piping.

Get the exhaust fabricated, then make sure the car still runs well. At this point fit the intercooler on, and fabricate the piping. Then attach the piping to the intake and make sure all the systems still work (yes on stock injectors and map) but I didn't say drive the car (though if it runs you could, just don't boost it)

At this point you will have a running car with a turbocharger completely fitted and you can work on engine management. I say do the management last because you KNOW the car ran with the stock setup, and is there are problems they are with the engine management and not because somehow the timing is off or the spark plugs are fouled up ect.. Those problems can hold you back a long time if you are having to look at every little thing you changed at once.

[Venom_5]

Originally Posted by RichieRichJP

http://www.atpturbo.com/root/index.htm
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=BCS

Pressure Ratio for 12psi = 1.8276
Pressure Ratio for 15psi = 2.0345

For 12psi:
at 2000 rpm, you should be looking at 9.27 Corrected Flow ... so thats where you start off on the map .... then you go straight across horizontally to 32.43 lbs/min at 7000 rpm

For 15psi:
at 2000 rpm, you should be looking at 9.97 Corrected Flow ... so thats where you start off on the map .... then you go straight across horizontally to 34.91 lbs/min at 7000 rpm

of course those Flow #s take into account that your engine is 2.2L (which it is) and that your VE is about 90%, which most people use as an accurate baseline ... even if it were a little off, the numbers wouldnt change much

someone correct me if im wrong, but thats how ive always been told to read the maps

[RichieRichJP]

Originally Posted by Luckynumber5

I would do this:
fit the turbocahrger and all oil/coolant lines to it, then make sure there is a path for the exhaust piping, and a path for the intercooler piping.

Everything has been prefitted so it fits. Everything that has ss braid lines, oil feed, oil cooler, FMIC piping, intake, EVERYTHING, fits without any problem.

I would like to piece things together in stages too, but after being in a wreck once, I'm scared of bolting things on and getting in a wreck and be fudged on my parts.


Venom, I just spoke with Luis actually and he explained some of it to me. I'd actually need to run something like 800cc/min or even smaller...

[Venom_5]

i still think that turbo is too big, but if youre devoted to it ... then i guess i would say start looking at some 720cc injectors

i say 720cc because i believe i read that people have used 2JZ-GE injectors (the 320s) on their 5S-FTE setups, and there are 720s available for the 2JZ

[Venom_5]

richie, you might want to consider a Garret GT28 of some sort ... just ran those numbers for a local who wants to turbo his 7th Gen Celica GT (1ZZ), and at 8psi he was at a pretty decent efficiency

i can check if you want, but i bet the transition from his 1.8 to your 2.2L, and a bump up from his 8psi to ~15psi for you would put you in a better efficiency range than the GT35