Flooded 2.2L, where to start?

[Mike7143]

Hello all!

I'm new here to these forums! I looked around first and I like what I see! I just recently got my first Toyota!! Its a 95 Camry with the 2.2L 4dr coupe LE with about 70,000 miles. Overall it looks like a really nice car, but there is of course a problem... the engine won't turn over.

Story: Its been raining a lot here in the Midwest lately. So this guy's daughter drove this Camry about 40mph into a flooded road (common sense should have kicked in, but i guess it didn't.... who knows). Anyway, half way through this flooded road the car dies. Opens the doors, and apparently about 2" of water got inside (I'm assuming 2" up from the floor). The car was towed out and it'd had sat at a repair shop where they told the guy that is was totaled and that a new engine would be about $3,500 or just scrap it cause you don't want to mess with flooded cars (2" of water is hardly flooding in my opinion...)

So he just offers to sell it off, got it for $250!

I trailered it home and started snooping around more. Obviously I'm not very skilled with Toyota. This is the first one! Everything electrical seems to work; windows, locks, lights(in and out), radio, etc. My first thought was that maybe if water was in the engine, it had sat a little, that maybe the battery wasn't strong enough to crank over, so i hooked up a charger but it still wouldn't turn. I checked the dipsticks, oil looks good, no water in it that i can tell, same with the transmission. I'm not sure if the repair shop changed it or not though. I also took the spark plugs out and they look great.

I'm about to take out the seats and carpet to try and get it dry as well.

So... with it all explained and out on the table, can anyone offer any ideas of where to start before I rip into rebuilding the engine? Ever heard of anything like this? I'm pretty experienced in car work, just never on Toyotas.

As more progress comes, I'll give more relevant information.

Thanks a lot for any help, it will be much appreciated! Great forum ladies and gentlemen! I look forward to exploring around more and start sharing what I learn with other new Toyota owners!

Cheers,
Mike

PS: I'll post up some pictures soon to show it off!

[eurohazard]

So to make certain I understand.....the engine physically won't turn over? As in the starter isn't spinning? Or does the engine crank, but not fire?

[Mike7143]

Sorry I was unclear about that part (probably the most important... haha)

When I turn the key, the starter motor engages, but the car's motor won't spin. It seems as though the engine is locked up. So yes, the engine won't physically spin. Starter works fine. If I hold the key, I'm likely to burn up the starter, so I don't want to do that! Hope that helps, sorry.

As promised, here are pictures!








Unfortunately the camera battery died before I could snap pictures of the engine bay. Just the regular stock 2200 2.2L.

[toyomoho]

Not sure of the mechanics statement about a totaled engine if only 2 inches of water inside the car. Thus determine just how high the water actually got with the car. From this height determine what components and areas of the car could have been affected. In addition to the engine, there is the trans and diff, brakes, etc plus water may have ended up sitting inside the trunk, body panels, wiring, etc.

The issue may be in the wiring, computer, etc that might have gotten submerged.

Remove the air filter and check for water and in the resonator box located between the filter and throttle body. If water is present it may have gotten inside the engine. Suggest draining and replacing the engine oil, trans and diff fluids. The diff has a vent open to air. Check for signs of water.

Don’t turn the engine over until you remove the spark plugs in case water is in the cylinders.

Inspect the car closely than post back with your findings. Working on an engine that has been submerged in water is a completely different issue.

[Mike7143]

The water lines look about right where they should be, about 2" high on the kickpanels. There was some pooled water under the rear bench seat. There's no way that the water was that high, but my guess is that its there from when the put the car on the tow truck and it was raised in the front. There was no water in the spare tire well which is a good sign. There also is no water in the air filter compartment, I'll have to check this resonator box though. I did remove the plugs before trying to start it, although I don't know what the repair shop had done..

Thanks!

[eurohazard]

Damn 74k miles? That's crazy! Nice buy...even if you need a new engine. I suspect personally that water was sucked into the engine, and hat's why it died. Now, that water in the iron cyl walls has rusted to the iron pistons. A full rebuild or replacement is probably in order. I mean if the starter is working but the engine won't turn over, it sounds right to me. But keep us posted........maybe a crap load of penetrating oil in each cyl overnight could loosen it up. But even then as soon as the pistons go up and down, damage is occurring.

[toyomoho]

You need to determine if the engine is frozen or has hydraulic lock for water in the cylinders.

Pull the spark plugs, the passengers side tire and attempt to turn the engine by hand at the crank bolt. If it turns determine if water comes out of the cylinders. If water you have a large problem. If no water and the engine turns with very little effort try cranking it with the starter motor (plugs out). If still a problem may be a starter issue.

[Kep]

Whether or not the engine cranks you need to get to it before any more damage is done. How long has it been sitting since it was flooded? It wouldn't hurt to assume that you got water into the engine and transmission. Pull the plugs like said above. If you can rotate the engine replace the fluids (engine & trany) quickly and rotate some more. It wouldn't hurt to flood the cylinders with diesel to remove the last traces of water and then blow out the residue of diesel.

Also try to determine if the ECU got wet. You will probably need to replace it if it did.

This kind of thing happens with boats. Here is a link to a procedure that they use to "pickle" the engine:
http://www.boatus.com/hurricanes/pickle.asp

If you wouldn't mind, please go back and edit your pictures down to something less than 8" wide so the page doesn't go on and on...

Kep

[Mike7143]

Thanks for all that info guys. I'll definitely try turning the engine on the shaft, it was my next move, just figured I'd do a little research first (like the hint to remove the tire, no hassle now!) As far as removing the plugs, thats been done. The car has been sitting for roughly a week, maybe a week and a half now. I know its not good... the bottom seat frames and etc already have some rust....

I'll look into this so called pickling the engine to see what that's about, could be worth a shot. I figured that if I can't turn it on the crankshaft that I'd dump in a butt-load of WD-40 or the like and see how that works, otherwise I'll just have to rebuild. Even if that's the case, its worth it considering I paid $250. Even at $700 or $800 to rebuild it, its a great deal on the car!

Another interesting note; When we winched it up onto the trailer, after a while i found water on the trailer deck under the engine... I'm not sure if its from the engine itself or somewhere else where it was trapped, but that could be a sign. I'll give it a more thorough look tomorrow for sure.

Thanks you all, I really appreciate the helpfulness!
-Mike

[Kep]

A week may be too long to feasibly recover the engine if it got water inside it. Before you decide to rebuild it check prices out on some used engines. I think that you may find some good deals out there.

Kep

[Mike7143]

well, i went out and did a little bit of work. I took out the front seats in an attempt to get the carpet out so it can dry before anything else rusts more inside. Its obvious I need to get a haynes manual for this cause the trim has me stumped. I couldn't get the middle console out, or at least not the back half. Anyway, I also took the passenger wheel off to turn the engine manually. I can get it to spin about 1/4 the way around but thats it. On turning counterclockwise, it will get stuck and is hard to turn clockwise from that position. Turning clockwise is easier and when it gets to the end of its 1/4 turn, it sounds like a clank inside and it won't go any further. I'm not too sure what it could be, possibly a bent valve?

Anyway, I took the valve cover off the top to have a look. I didn't see anything unusual or odd about it. There's no sludge of anykind, looks pretty good I think. I'll take a picture when its light again tomorrow of it.

That was about it for the evening. Once I get a manual I can start getting the soggy carpet out and drying the metal. A big question(s) I have are:

1. I heard that you have to take the engine out through the bottom. True or false?

2. I feel like the lower engine is alright, and that its in the top section. Can I do the rebuilding in the car or is it going to be necessary to pull it out? ie, can i get the cylinder head off and etc while still in the car?

Thanks everyone again for all your helping information!

-Mike

[Kep]

My recollection on the console between the seats is a screw inside the compartment and one or two hidden behind the rear ash tray.

Kep

[Mike7143]

So here's what I worked on today:

I got all the carpet out and the floor pan plugs pulled to drain the water. After it was all dried out, I made about a 25% bleach and water mix, and sprayed the entire floor with it then letting it dry. I did that 3 times. As for the carpet its self, its pretty saturated. My plan is to again mix a bleach water solution in a garbage can and then let the carpet soak in that for a few hours. Afterwards I'll let it dry out completely.

Here are pictures of it with the carpet gone. I guess if I want a stereo system, I should run wires now!Ha.


Like my new driver's side seat? Quality at it's finest!


Notice that silver box at the end (left side) of the console? I'm assuming its got something to do with the airbag system since it says airbag something. Hopefully it wasn't flooded, but I assume that if it was, the dash light for the bags would be on, and its not. When the car is in the "On" position, I can hear a faint high-pitch sound that I think is coming from it. Hopefully thats normal. I never heard it before, but it was under the console, carpet, and padding. As I said earlier, all the electronics seem to work, but I suppose there's no way to "test" the bags, haha.


After that was all complete, I started on the engine. Like I said, yesterday I got the valve cover off, but that was about it. Today, I got the manual and started more to tear down the engine. I looked in this resonator box (the one between the filter and manifold) and low and behold... It was about 1/2 full of water! Probably not good eh? Just inside the manifold seems dirty too, like dried dirt. I got the distributor out today as well. I stopped there cause the next thing is the timing belt, but I wanted to move it somewhere more permanent than the driveway ha. Here's the top end of it all, looks normal to me; nothing seems wrong.








I'll have more as I go along.
Ideas about that half resonator box full of water? ha!

-Mike

[Kep]

The water in the resonator has me stumped. The only way I can imagine it getting in there would be to have the water over the air filter. Oh well,...

Before you soak the carpet in bleach cut a small piece off from under a seat and soak the piece in the same concentration for the same amount of time to reassure yourself that the bleach won't damage the color of the carpet. It would be a shame to work that hard on the carpet and have it come out faded or multi colored.

Kep

[eurohazard]

Water in the resonator proves that water came through the intake tract and into the throttle body, and ultimately into the combustion chambers. I suspected that, but we know for sure. It's bad news. The head will look fine (and it does), but the damage is in the block. A full rebuild or used motor is needed probably.

I'd go for a 3SGTE swap!