Brakes - knocking noise from right rear wheel, smells stink..

[islandboy57]

Tonight I heard a knocking noise coming from what I thought to be the back passenger side tire. It didn't matter if I was stepping on the brakes or not. Then it went away, but I could hear a faint squealing sound like the pad was rubbing against the disc when the car is in motion. The car is really quiet so it's easy to hear these odd noises. I should note that I heard this knocking just after a recent brake job but it went away and I didn't hear it again until tonight.

When I got home I bent down and smelled the back passenger side wheel and there was a smelly odor - the last time I smelled that particular smell was when I was looking at buying an '03 Civic and it had a stuck caliper so the brakes were dragging. Anyway, I went to the other wheels and didn't smell anything. That leads me to believe that the right rear wheel must have an incorrectly installed pad/disc or maybe they overtightened the lug nuts and ended up warping the rotor.

I'm taking the car back to the service station that did the brake job a month ago so we'll see what they say. I'm kind of annoyed because this is my mom's car and I don't like the thought of her driving with a problem with the brakes. This service station is generally pretty good but when we went to pick up the car, the head mechanic was saying they had ordered the wrong rotors so they JUST finished the job after reordering the right ones. He drives a gen 3 (got it in bad shape for almost nothing then overhauled everything) himself so I'm surprised he was not aware that that there are several different setups; discs/drums, discs all around (I4 w/ ABS), and discs all around (V6). Are there different size rotors for the station wagon too?

Anyway, I hope it's fixed by the end of the day tomorrow. The brakes still have some "judder" to them which is getting less and less as the car is driven more. I guess they didn't do anything to wear them in before handing the car over, but I'm not sure if that's common practice or not.

[new echo owner]

The car does have four wheel disc, right? It is possible that your parking brake is either hanging up or too tight. Usually, if the brake pads or caliper is sticking, there would be some discoloration on the disc, turning slight blue. Have seen parking brakes came apart when the disc was removed in correctly, and if not re-installed properly it would make noise when driving with or without applying the brakes.

Can you explain what you meant by "judder"?

N.E.O.

[Kep]

If you have rear drums a spring may have dropped off and wedged somewhere and broken loose and wedged again. I had that happen once. It is usually easy to spot when you pull off the drum. You might want to ask to be there when he pulls the drum. It would be very easy for them to invent a problem even if it was their initial brake job that caused it. If you see the problem it would be much more difficult for them to weasel out of it.

If it has discs all around I would be curious if they replaced the caliper on that wheel. Don't know why it makes me suspicious but that's one part that might contribute to both symptoms.

Kep

[islandboy57]

Yes, the car has discs all around, no ABS. I didn't get a chance to look at the brakes this morning, just dropped off the car and explained the problem. Hopefully they find what's wrong. The head mechanic said he was going to drive it around for a bit then pull that wheel off and check it out.

Oh and I got the term brake "judder" from Tire Rack. That kind of grip-slip-grip-slip vibration as the pads rub inconsistently on the new rotors. There's only been 200-300 miles driven since everything (brakes and rotors) were changed but it's getting better.

Thanks for the replies - the car should be done by 1p so I'll update with what they fixed if anything.

[new echo owner]

The 'judder' is probably cause by whatever is causing the noise; after brake repairs there shouldn't be any kind of abnormal vibration or pulsation when applying the brakes. Brake pads sometime may need 'break-in' period, other then that, everything should operate vibration and noise free.

N.E.O.

[islandboy57]

The judder is disappearing, Tire Rack has an article and it recommends 400 miles of break-in driving where you're not too hard on the brakes. My mom doesn't drive much so that may be two months worth of driving.

I dropped my mom off to get her car and I talked to the mechanic. He said they adjusted the calipers and shims. He heard that knocking noise too so that was good. About half way home (a few minutes) my mom said the noise was back and louder than ever because she could hear it over the CD playing in the car. It disappeared before she got home. The service station was closing when we got the car so as much as I would have liked to take it back right now, they close early on Saturday .

I just drove the car for about 15 minutes and didn't hear anything - no knocking noise and no light squealing. Hopefully everything is finally okay. I'll drive her car again tomorrow for a while and see if I can get the noise to come back. The right rear brake no longer has a strong smell, but now the right front smells some. Maybe it's just the lube they used when they adjusted everything?

We'll see.. I can always take it back again next week if need be. There was no charge for this of course..

[new echo owner]

Do you use the parking brake?

N.E.O.

[islandboy57]

Originally Posted by new echo owner

Do you use the parking brake?

N.E.O.

Yes, every single time. As does my mom. They took all the wheels off and inspected the brakes on each wheel but I'm not sure if they checked the parking brake, I forgot to mention that to them. If the noise comes back I will definitely mention that.

[Kep]

I keep coming back to your comment about a smell. Is it a brake fluid smell or something else that you can describe? Have you noticed any brake fluid loss in the reservoir?

Kep

[islandboy57]

Originally Posted by Kep

I keep coming back to your comment about a smell. Is it a brake fluid smell or something else that you can describe? Have you noticed any brake fluid loss in the reservoir?

Kep

The brake fluid reservoir is full, I checked it on Monday. That smell is exactly what I smelled when I test drove a Civic with something wrong with its brakes. A stuck caliper or something, where the brakes are 'dragging' even when the car is in motion and your foot is off the brake. That time it was really strong though and the mechanic I took it to could smell it before he even reached the car - I could also feel it during my test drive. With my mom's car I have to bend down toward the wheel to smell it. The other wheels don't smell like that, they just smell like warm/hot metal.

Anyway, I'll keep an eye, ear, and nose on my mom's car. I really appreciate everyone's input.

[new echo owner]

Originally Posted by islandboy57

Yes, every single time. As does my mom. They took all the wheels off and inspected the brakes on each wheel but I'm not sure if they checked the parking brake, I forgot to mention that to them. If the noise comes back I will definitely mention that.

The parking brake may have some bearing on the noise that you are hearing. In your case, the parking brakes are located inside the rear rotors, which cannot be seen by simply removing the wheel; the rear rotors needed to be off.

If the parking brake is hanging or the cable sticking, there is a chance that the parking brake may not be fully release when you start driving, which in turn may cause noises when the vehicle is moving. You can test this by not applying the parking brake when you park you car the next few times, and see if the noise is gone.

N.E.O.

[islandboy57]

I drove my mom's car tonight and the noise was back, and louder than before. Thanks for the detailed explanation on the parking brake being a potential problem, I'll specifically tell them to please inspect the parking brake shoes, especially the right side. The noise is definitely coming from the right rear wheel.

When I detail my mom's car tomorrow at my friend's house I'll park it without the parking brake to test it. There's a slight incline at home so I prefer to use the parking brake. Oddly there was no sound when I drove it earlier today for 15 minutes and the parking brake was engaged from when my mom drove it home from the service station. It's just very intermittent.

My mom doesn't really want to drive the car and I completely understand (for one the noise is a bit disconcerting and two will driving it with that noise do damage to the parking brake assembly?) - so I think we'll drop it off Sunday night/Monday morning and I'll just take her to work. I hope they can fix it, this will be the second time we're bringing it back to fix their original work. Maybe it's time to find a new mechanic..

EDIT - no weird smells this time. Lost the slight burning smell, gained an even louder knocking noise. Ah well as long as it gets fixed it's fine.

[new echo owner]

Keep us posted.

N.E.O.

[islandboy57]

Okay.. Got the car back but the noise is still there. A little better but I can hear it over the radio. They replaced all four brake pads again, but with Toyota OEM this time. They also checked the parking brake but didn't find anything wrong which is why they replaced the pads. It is still the right rear wheel that has the clunking noise. I'm at my wits end here, I don't know what to do.

I'm thinking about just taking it to a local brake/tire shop or Toyota. And if they find something wrong and fix it, we'll have to take the bill up with the service station. If they also can't find anything wrong, well, maybe my mom will just have to live with the noise. The car is 13 years old after all, but it had been whisper quiet up until the brake job.

[shingouki808]

I'm not by my car right now so I can't give you better advice on the brakes, but check into these two things. Check your rear sway bar ( make sure the bushings are good) for play. Check that wheel for play, the smell might be grease and the knocking sound might be a bad bearing. Just a couple of things to check in case.

One more thing, have they every replaced or resurfaced the rotors this whole time?