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Old 10-07-2008, 11:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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4th Generation Extra 2.5 gear?

Hi everybody,
could anybody tell me if this is possible that my V6 Camry 2000 has one more intermediate gear between 2nd and 3rd ones? While driving on cold engine just after starting the engine I was counting how many times my automatic transmission will shift gears. I saw 1 to 2 shift, then, because engine is cold and needs to be warmed up, it goes some time on 2nd gear without shifting to third, RPM goes up, on 3000 approximately it upshifts (as it is supposed to be on cold engine) but it looks like it doesn't shift to 3rd gear but to some intermediate position, because RPM though goes down after shifting still too high for that speed. And after driving on that magic gear for several seconds RPM jump down again (just as it does when upshifting) and I'm on my 3rd gear (RPM/speed ratio is as it should be for 3rd gear). And this is definitly not 3rd to overdrive shifting, because if I continue speed up on 70 km/h it upshifts again and I feel that soft jump forward when direct clutch engages (it engages on overdrive).
Why this could be happening to my car? Did anybody experience the same? Is this sign of something wrong with my transamission? I know it has some problems, it jerks a little when shifting from parking to reverse on hot engine (on cold it works absolutely fine). Last winter in cold weather something was happening to it and car was jerking like crazy when switching from parking to drive or reverse. But this extra gear between 2nd and 3rd - what is this? Maybe some clutch or brake in transmission slips or doesn't engage or doesn't release fully?
Any suggestions?
Thanks!

P.S. transmission, according to what I've learned from papers, should be A541E.
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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ive had this happen too. it feels like the car shifts 5 times for some odd reason. and it will sometimes feel like 4 shifts when OD is off. but rest asured, its not an extra gear. unless im mistaken, its a 4 speed tranny including OD
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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It's the torque converter locking/unlocking. I don't know how it all works but usually when in cruise in OD gear, the ECU tells the torque converter to unlock/unsync to keep engine speed low, torque converter and tranny is unsync and so huge loss of power, but it's cool since it's on cruising. so it's like an extra 5th gear. If you notice when you cruise at high speed say 65-70mph, and need power you step on the gas a little more and it seems to downshift to 3rd but it doesn't because if you turn off OD the RPM jumps to like 4-5K but here it only jumps to about 3K. Key word "jump" which mean there is a noticeable shift in RPM range and this "jump" is between 3rd and OD gear in case of my example. And this is when the torque converter locking up while in OD gear to give it some more power just enough to make a decent acceleration at high speed without turning off OD and shifting it to 3rd.

Though I notice it a lot on cruising at high speed, it may as well be at lower speed and lower gears too because torque converter can lock any time when the ECU tells it too when you press and the gas a little for some acceleration without downshifting (which our tranny is very hesitant to downshift without ETC ON).

My theory is that the torque converter ALWAYS unsync/unlocked in normal driving, and it locks on hard throttle where a lot of power is needed.
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks guys for the answers. If I understood last post correctly the idea is that under heavy load transmission may engage direct clutch lock and torque from engine will go directly into transmission input shaft and not through fluid in converter? That's interesting idea and is very possible scenario. When I go on 2nd gear initially torque is transferred via fluid in converter and RPM is higher because of some power loss in converter which goes to just warming ATF. Then at some moment ECU decides to engage direct clutch and there is no more power loss and that's why RPM drops and it looks like upshifting. Then engine warms up enough to enable 3rd gear and transmission unlocks direct clutch and upshifts into 3rd gear. Sounds real!
Thanks!
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