when changing oil...does it NEED to be level?

[94cylcamry]

Hey all. I did my first oil change on my car about 1,000 miles ago, and I think I may have messed up a bit. Any help is appreciated. I just assumed that I'd be able to slide under the car and unscrew the drain pan gasket, slide the pan under, and let it drip, but the car was a lot lower than I had first thought, and the bolt was in an awkward spot. I ended up having to jack it up, put two jack stands in front of the car, so the car wasn't really level, but wasn't at an extreme angle either. Then I drained, honestly sat there for 20 minutes and just let it drain so the oil filter wouldn't leak all over the engine, and then refilled with exactly the recommended amount.

Since then the car has been ok, but it seems to leak more oil than it used to. It always used to have the slightest drip that would make you notice spots on the driveway, but nowhere near bad enough to really care about. After I did the oil change, the leak has definitely increased, and it seems like it's not just from one place, but from two. I'm going to try to jack the car up again tonight and see if I can figure out where it's coming from.

Anyway, how important is it to have the car completely level? I feel like since it wasn't level, some of the old oil may have been left in the motor, and when I refilled with the exact amount, I was actually overfilling. I checked after changing and it was slightly over the FULL mark, but didn't seem like any cause for alarm. Dad had always said that the shop usually overfilled it anyway.

So from now on, should I keep the car completely level? I was under the impression most people just jacked it up. And are there obvious places I should look for a leak, in case it's not as obvious as I hope?

Thanks everyone, sorry for the lengthy post, I'm pretty new to this.

EDIT: Ok, should be working now...

[Black95Cam]

haha.. too long, but when i change my oil i leave it up on the jack stand + the jack.. been doing it since i had my car and havent had any problems... yet... LoL!

[new echo owner]

The way you had the car jacked up as you had described would be fine, since the drain plug is located at the back side of the engine, which would be lower. In fact it would drain up a slight bit more than you would have it is leveled.

I doubt very much your oil change technique had anything to do with the oil leak, except maybe the viscosity of the oil. Try to locate where the oil leak is relative to the engine, may be we can give you some suggestion as to what to look for and what it maybe.

N.E.O.

[94cylcamry]

That's sort of what I was originally thinking, that since the drain plug was on that side of the engine, and slanted, that I'd actually be draining more out. Hmm.

And the leak has always been on the passenger side...umm...from the top it looks like the slightest bit may be seeping out from behind the timing belt cover. Other then that, I can't see where it would be leaking from. Like I said I'll try to jack it up tonight.

And I replaced the oil with the same viscosity that it had had previously...regular 10W-30 Pennzoil. I'd only used that brand because the shop had been using it in the car previously.

Honestly...the dipstick is saying like 8/10 full...which sort of worries me. The oil has never leaked like this before, and I definitely filled it up to the full mark. The leak seems to have mostly stopped now, or at least slowed down, so maybe it's down to an acceptable level now.

Nice to know I didn't cause it though. Thanks for any suggestions.

[new echo owner]

Put some dye in the engine, if you know how to use it. Usually the oil leak from around the timing cover area would cam seal, crank seal, oil pump seal and O-ring seal. Anyone of them could cause a leak in that area; however, they are usually all done at the same time since it is less work than having to go back inside to replace one after another.

N.E.O.

[gladis]

I just did my first oil change too and I jacked the right front side up (I'm paranoid about jacks, so I jack as little as possible). I actually didn't even tighten it as much as I wished I should've, but it leaks more than my mechanic does it. Still, no more than 3-4 drops a week though, not enough to warrant me jacking the car up and tightening the nut again.

Your leak is not good, but it's not life threatening, if nothing else, just fill it up whenever it gets too low and get your mechanic to take a look at it next time.

[94cylcamry]

Well I was under there, and it doesn't appear to be coming from the bolt...though I do have to replace that washer the next time I do it. I took a couple pics...



As you can see, that whole area is pretty wet...thought it was that leaking hose, but I'm not really sure. Then I looked up into the timing belt cover...



What I at first thought was oil leaking from the oil pan...seems to be oil dripping from somewhere higher and just dribbling over the lip of the oil pan.

So I'm not really sure...

[new echo owner]

How many miles is on the car? When was the last the engine had a timing belt?

The second picture show the area where the front cam seal and the oil pump is located at. As I had mentioned, when oil leak is found in those areas, it would be a good idea to replace all the seals at the front of the engine regardless of which one is leaking.

There was a DIY thread that discuss replacing oil the seals on a 5sfe engine a few weeks back, take a look at that and see it is something you want to tackle on your own.

N.E.O.

[importcar]

Have you checked for leaks behind the valve cover? Mine was leaking because the valve cover nuts weren't torqued to specs.

[94cylcamry]

The car has almost 159,000 miles on it, timing belt was done...not recently but a little while ago...umm..and I'll check behind the valve cover. Also I'll look for the DIY.

[new echo owner]

Keep us posted on your findings.

N.E.O.

[Mike Gerber]

I agree with N.E.O. If the leak is coming from one of the seals behind the timing belt area, replace all the seals there at the same time, along with a new timing belt. If it is leaking form any of those seals some oil is sure to have dripped on to the timing belt, compromising it's integrity. All the labor would be the same and the cost of the belt itself is cheap, compared to the cost/time of the labor involved.

As far as your oil change method, that's the perfect way to drain the oil. I actually built some small ramps out of 2 X 4's, similiar to Rhino Ramps, that raise the front of the car about 3 inches off the ground. That is just enough room to slide under the front of the car and loosen the drain plug. Overfilling the car a slight amount like you did won't hurt it. I would say you are safe up to a half quart over. If you don't know how old the sealing washer is, by all means get a new washer to put on the bolt for the next oil change. The washer does have a correct side to install it on the bolt; the smooth side goes toward the oil pan. That's to keep it from sticking to the oil pan when the bolt is removed.

Mike

[Hajoca]

I have a similar leak, even though I replaced all the seals already.

I suspect oil pan gasket is done. I will replace in spring.

[94cylcamry]

Wow.

So dad just filled me in on the fact that if the dipstick is on L, then you have to add a quart. I was thinking that the dipstick was the level of oil in the entire engine. In that case, I'm not leaking anywhere near as much as I thought. Next time the timing belt is due for a change is around 190,000, so I may just tell the mechanic to look at it then.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

[importcar]

Originally Posted by Mike Gerber

If you don't know how old the sealing washer is, by all means get a new washer to put on the bolt for the next oil change. The washer does have a correct side to install it on the bolt; the smooth side goes toward the oil pan. That's to keep it from sticking to the oil pan when the bolt is removed.

Mike

I've used the same washer up to 4 times by flipping it at each oil change. Crush it without overtightening and it should be ok with no leaks. When I'm not using a washer, I apply a little bit of Permatex High Temp Red gasket maker on the drain plug.