Smoking after short drive... water pump / thermostat got wet?

[LittleCamryLE]

Just when I thought I fit my orginal budget on this project car --- '94 Camry LE 210k mi. --- Money-spent-to-date is $595 (2 new tires, new battery, fluids & filter, wiper blades, light bulbs, DMV fees). I did oil change on this past Sunday, the car started smoking after every short drives since then. I would say all my drives so far are about 5-10 miles or 15 minutes.


Symptoms:

1) Light White smoke coming out from frontal passenger side engine bay (near water pump & coolant expansion tank). Before oil change, no smoke whatsoever only some squeking/high pitch sound near timing belt area.

2) After refilling coolant expansion tank, it emptied out within 2 drives. This happened twice. The first time it emptied itself was before I did oil change. So, I topped it off during oil change. I saw it empty again already 2 days afterwards.

3) Engine oil looks clean and full and no leaking on the ground both after oil change and when I see smoke these several days. The coolant expansion tank does look a bit dirty (little light brown-ish stuff on the inside wall).


This only started happening after I change engine oil (Castrol GTX High Mileage 10W-30) & filter (Bosch Premium Filter Part# 3311) & ATF (Dextron III) this past Sunday. I have to say though after patiently draining engine oil (good 5-10 minutes), when I removed the old oil filter, there's a good amount of oil engine oil spilled all over downwards from the filter location.


I tried to be quick and careful, but the filter was at a 45 degree angle, so it still spilled a good amount downwards. Would this contaminate/seep into the thermostat or water pump? Is this what cause some smokes (after parking the car, it lasts for a good 3 minutes if I don't open the hood). It doesn't smell too much like oil burning or plastic burning, it's just some nasty rotten smell.


I'm gonna try to drive more these days and see if smoking or coolant use is still that consistently severe. Part of my gut feeling is that the oil overspill had something to do with this. Thanks in advance for any advice!

[LittleCamryLE]

should I pressure wash the inside too? like around the oil filter & radiator?


i'm wondering if i can flush out my coolant at a car wash too... u know, one of those you pay $1.50 for a couple minutes of spraying. if i can do that, i really want to spray the coolant expansion tank.


after work (after posting this thread), i made a 4 minutes drive to a post office parking lot with decent lighting. the engine hasn't completely warmed up yet, maybe 1/3 to the normal temperature range (e.g. thus 1/6 up from C). after i parked, i saw smoke already, not a whole lot. but what i did see is around the radiator it's wet. i should say on the bottom of radiator where the lower bumper cover would trap some coolant.


after just a little bit, i carefully open up the radiator cap, the coolant is full, but it's extremely medium light brown... i would say rusty color for sure. i thiink i'm due for a coolant flush big time. if i do a flush, can i use regular tap water during the flush, or should i stick with using a 50/50 mix of distill water & coolant the entire time?


Step 51 from dz63's timing belt & water pump DIY post:
"Flush the radiator with clean tap water until it runs clear. Close the drain port and fill with 50-50 mix of distilled water and coolant. Fill the overflow tank with 100% coolant. With radiator cap open, run the engine with heater in the “hot” position and watch for coolant flow in upper radiator tank. When the level will drops add a bit more coolant. Close radiator cap and allow engine to cool. Add additional coolant if needed when engine is cool. "

[samarai912]

go buy some prestone radiator flush and follow the instructions for it. it'll work. when I had my car sitting for 2 years. my radiator fluid was all crapped up too ( I forgot to drain it before storage). mybe go buy two flushs so you can rinse and repeat.

as for your overflow tank just get a 10mm wrench take it out and clean it. its held on by two bolts. and afterwards pray that the much in your coolant isn't oil ( that means your head gasket go bye-bye) .

[toyomoho]

Oil spilling out of the filter might drop on the exhaust but not a lot. This should have dripped or burned off in the normal course of driving. You would know the smell of burnt oil.

Take sample of the liquid on top of the plastic shield and determine if it is radiator coolant by smell and feel. Coolant is slightly slippery.

If coolant check the radiator for leaks, hoses, etc. The upper and lower radiator tanks are plastic and can crack and leak. When the engine is cooled feel around the hoses including bypass and heater for signs of coolant.

If you want to flush the system drain the coolant into a container and dispose of properly. The complete method is to also remove the drain plug in the block, then flush the block and radiator with water.

Distilled water is very inexpensive, use this.

If you power wash the engine be careful where you spray the water. Don't get it into the electrical or ign systems as this may cause engine problems or failure to start.

You most likely have a coolant leak. If the air temps are still moderate in your area fill the engine with distilled water first then find the leak(s). Once found, fix and drain water and fill with coolant. No sense leaking coolant every where.

You can remove the remove expansion tank and wash in hot water.

[LittleCamryLE]

thanks guys! i'll give it a shot this weekend and report back. i track down any leaks, if no leak, i'll flush out the old craps and report back to see if the smoking goes away.

BTW, if there's crack anywhere in the top or bottom of radiator, can i use any epoxy or "Seal All" heat-resistant glue to seal it up? i'm crossing fingers that there's just leak on hose, which would be way cheaper than replacing the radiator.

[Kep]

There is a quick and easy pressure check that you can do (some auto parts stores will lend the tool) or have a mechanic do. It pressurizes the coolant system and gives you a chance to find the leak.

Flushing will be good for the cooling system but it won't fix a leak. Fix the leak first and then flush it.

Kep

[proftomda]

Unless you accidently punctured your radiator while changing your oil, the oil change and loss of coolant are coincidental. Dripping oil from the oil filter area will not come in contact with the water pump or thermostat and even if it did, would not affect the operation or cause them to leak. Brown rusty coolant, dropping coolant level, could be a poorly maintained cooling system or a budget busting head gasket failure in the making. You also mentioned wetness on the lower area of your radiator, overflow tank dropping quickly and smoking.

Clean your engine, radiator etc as good as you can. Is the car running normal? Check oil dipstick for clean fresh oil. Also make sure the car isnt blowing white smoke out the tailpipe, both indications of head gasket failure. If those areas normal, I would hone in on a cooling system leak by having the cooling system pressure tested. Pump the system up to 8 pounds or so and check all cooling system areas. If you have a loose hose, bad gasket or crack, you or the tech will find it easily.

[LittleCamryLE]

You guys are right on the money; there's really nothing related to the oil change & ATF change. yesterday, I took a good look at the radiator and there's a line of subtle crack on the top (plastic) part of the radiator. The cracks can are mostly facing engine and some shorter cracks facing front. I would say they are less than 1mm and some are just cracking patterns forming... well, it's enough to leak enough coolant to drip over to exhaust manifold/pipe making smoke.


When I test drove that car before it must have just low enough coolant that it didn't leak nor overheat. as a temporary/cheap solution, I used a kind of high heat resistant glue/adhesive/filler called "Liquid Metal" that I had purchased from AdvanceAutoParts a while back. After applying one layer last night and another layer this morning, I drove 20 min. for lunch with my family, no smoke. Then, I drove another 20 min. to a spot where I could do my radiator flush. It didn't smoke neither, however, the adhesive seemed a bit wet at a few spots. That "Liquid Metal" must have helped seal the crack quite a bit.


Now, I'm wondering if I can use some stop radiator leak additive like the Prestone Stop Leak, it might help it to seal those crack from the inside too?!?! I'm not a chemist so I don't know what & how exactly those additive work inside the radiator.


BTW, today's flushes were so overdue... the inside of radiator must be rusted big time...

1. 1st drain (rustic brown color all the way), flush with high pressure tap water till drain hole drips clear water, then close drain plug and fill with a bottle of Prestone Super Flush added distilled water, ran the car hot for 10 min. after reaching operating temp.
2. 2nd drain (mostly medium-light brown liquid but a bit clearer near the end), fill with a little distilled water till drain hole drips clear water, then close drain plug and fill with almost 50% Prestone Extended Life Coolant and 50% distilled water (I might have more distilled water here just because I'll drain it out again). Ran the car for 10 min. after reaching operating temp.
3. 3rd drain (light brown coolant drained out half way then finally some decent green coolant), fill with a little distilled water till drain hole drips clear water, then close drain plug and fill with almost 50% Prestone Extended Life Coolant and 50% distilled water.
4. I did some high pressure spraying around the fan, lower bumper, radiator (inside & out, front & back)... I try to stay away from the engine block. So far so good, no smoke or anything. I just need to keep observing how good those "Liquid Metal" patches will hold up.

Today's DIY cost: $14.36 + tax
1x $7.88 (1 gal. Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze Concentrate)
2x $0.74 (1 gal. Wal-Mart Distilled Water)
1x $2.44 (22oz. Prestone Super Radiator Flush)
2x 2.56 (Liquid Metal Filler)

Stand-by to use or return:
1x $4.83 (11oz. Prestone Super Radiator Stop Leak)
1x $7.88 (1 gal. Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze Concentrate)
2x $0.74 (1 gal. Wal-Mart Distilled Water)


Thanks again for all the insights. Please fill me in for any stop leak products that are worth trying. I heard of the brand Coastal, but couldn't find it in Wal-Mart, will look for some more in auto stores this coming week.

[new echo owner]

You will be better off replacing the radiator, the stop leak stuff is not going to hold. Those tanks are plastic, and the cracks will continue to expand.

N.E.O.

[proftomda]

NEO is right.

The fast weld patch job will only work for a short while because the thermo expansion and contraction of the plastic radiator and the fast weld patch will not be the same, resulting in a leak. Its a temp fix and I would not plan any road trips until the radiator is changed.

[toyomoho]

Concur, the weld patch will work, but other cracks can form that leak worse. It will buy you some time but get a new radiator.

[LittleCamryLE]

oh man... you guys are right again... after some highway driving and longer commute, those patches i put are starting to crack and leak slowly. i'm ordering a new radiator at rockauto.com for $85.09 including shipping.
Brand: SPECTRA PREMIUM
Part #: CU1318"

i'm glad Toyota parts are cheap, available at the local AutoZone/AdvanceAutoParts @ $127 + tax or 1-800-RADIATOR @ 110 + tax. i know i'm being penny-pinching here, but i rather save another 50 bucks getting online than the warranty from local stores... kind of hoping a big part like radiator won't be defective or damaged by ground shipping. when it arrives i'll try to put it in and be done with this saga and hopefully start enjoying some low maintenance Camry experience... thanks for everyone's input so far.

[Kep]

You can find all metal radiators. I don't know if there is a reason for the plastic combo types other than they are probably cheaper. I'd go with an all metal one.

Kep