Rods and Pistons - OEM Strength

[ekopel]

Out of the internals of the motor on the 1MZFE, which is the weakest link? Rods or pistons? If I did upgraded rods, would the oem pistons be ok for up for 250hp? vice versa? I got a rod knock (almost positive) on my motor at 140k miles, so I know the rods arent THAT strong...

All opinions welcome.

I did a search BTW, there was some discussion, but no definitive answer.

[bigbird]

solaraguy is the best place to ask advanced performance question IMO. but from what ive learned there the rods are pretty weak. but the pistons arent much better. in my experiance, if your gonna do one you might as well do both. however the stock rods AND pistons would be fine at 250whp. just look at eye8pussies's car. 260 + whp and over 200K miles on stock internals. the weakest links are the knock sensors, auto tranny, and fuel system for 250hp.

[ekopel]

bigbird - first off thanks for responding to my questions, ive been getting frustrated because im doing a full rebuild and have a lot of questions.

I pulled the heads off today and I have a rod knock for sure.

I feel like I had really bad luck, especially because I only have 130k on the car and got a rod knock.

The pistons and bottom of the heads look awfully fried. I wouldn't be surprised if I was running a little lean, but regardless, the failure was the rod in the end.

I am honestly kind of fed up with this motor. 130k and a blown rod...

I am definitely keeping the A541E, possibly doing a high stall torque converter (depending on TN opinions of it), and a tranny oil cooler, so that any power i do add to the drive train, the oil cooler will equalize the stress it puts on it.


I am definitely doing the relocated knock sensors. I have read numerous problems with that, and possibly believe that could have been one of the reasons for me getting the rod knock.

What is up with fuel system? I used to run a piggyback ECU, but got rid of it. If I am keeping the OEM ECU, If I did a bigger fuel pump and injectors, would it be worth it? Whats up with the fuel system?


sorry for the long post.

[bigbird]

the fuel system is a flaw mainly in FI applications. doesnt flow enough, the injectors dont flow well and the system is returnless style system. basically it runs lean with boost. but the fix is simple. even if you goin NA...which i still feel it would be hard to get 250whp NA from that motor, 255lph pump, jims fuel mod, higher flow injectors and a high flow fuel filter, a good tune and you should be good for 250whp.

youd be a fool to be fed up with this motor for a reason like this. its one of the best by toyota ever. look around you, how many of us complain about the motor other then its limitations as far as performance? not many. you got unlucky or the previous owner didnt take care of it.

anyways. unless you want to go FI i say either replace the motor stock or just get another car that will be faster if ya want somthing faster. since your keeping the auto anyways it will be slow no matter what you do. mine is.

[ekopel]

Originally Posted by bigbird

the fuel system is a flaw mainly in FI applications. doesnt flow enough, the injectors dont flow well and the system is returnless style system. basically it runs lean with boost. but the fix is simple. even if you goin NA...which i still feel it would be hard to get 250whp NA from that motor, 255lph pump, jims fuel mod, higher flow injectors and a high flow fuel filter, a good tune and you should be good for 250whp.

youd be a fool to be fed up with this motor for a reason like this. its one of the best by toyota ever. look around you, how many of us complain about the motor other then its limitations as far as performance? not many. you got unlucky or the previous owner didnt take care of it.

you know - you are absolutely right. thank you for that.

Now, can you tune an oem ECU? I really don't want to go through spending the money on an expensive piggyback again. If I run all the fuel mods without a tune, I will be running way rich right? What is the purpose of the jim's fuel mod?

[bigbird]

if your not running boost then a simple tuner like safcII would work fine. if ya dont the car will run really rich(depending on what fuel pump and injectors you have). Jims fuel mod basically equalizes the fuel delivered between the front and rear banks.

[ekopel]

with a good tune on an safc (is that the cheapest A/F ratio modifier?) how much HP would I see out of that? just out of curiousity.

Bigbird - thanks again man. If it wasn't for TN and the members in it, I probably would have sold the camry years ago.

[bigbird]

Originally Posted by ekopel

with a good tune on an safc (is that the cheapest A/F ratio modifier?) how much HP would I see out of that? just out of curiousity.

well if you were to just get a higher flow fuel system, nothing else, and then tune it.....maby like 10whp. if you did a full NA upgrade with FULL exhaust, p&p, higher flow intake, port the intake plenum and manifold, bigger TB. maby 20, 25whp. but thats alot of money in all of that. but i cant be real sure, not many people have done a proper full NA build and then dyno for us to see.

a used safcII would be one of the cheapest fastest and easiest way to tune for your goals.

Bigbird - thanks again man. If it wasn't for TN and the members in it, I probably would have sold the camry years ago.

depending on how you look at it....that may be a bad thing.

[ekopel]

Originally Posted by bigbird

well if you were to just get a higher flow fuel system, nothing else, and then tune it.....maby like 10whp. if you did a full NA upgrade with FULL exhaust, p&p, higher flow intake, port the intake plenum and manifold, bigger TB. maby 20, 25whp. but thats alot of money in all of that. but i cant be real sure, not many people have done a proper full NA build and then dyno for us to see.

a used safcII would be one of the cheapest fastest and easiest way to tune for your goals.

Ya, its going to stay N/A for now, probably another 2 years. I am 100% already doing a TB, both intakes, head work in terms of port + polish. I have already done a p+p myself for sr20det turbo setup that came out wonderful. I am also going to pick up both extra heads just in case something does go wrong (junkyard parts are cheap).

[QUOTE=bigbird;2580199
depending on how you look at it....that may be a bad thing.[/QUOTE]

All in all though, because of the mods I have done, I love it when I go to meets and they look at me like im crazy for modding a camry that has a total of 4 aftermarket and performance parts. Then; I take them for a ride - case closed lol. The car is just so unique which is what I love so much. And it has good numbers too.



Anyways, this is getting off topic...

Now, what about an SAFCII, and a 3MZ Bottom end/bigger injectors w/ the port and polish jobs? I would probably have to match the heads to the bigger bore on the 3MZ, but that just sounds so mean.

[bigbird]

performance wise, im not sure...i know nothing about the 3mz hybrid.

[Luckynumber5]

Rod knock isn't a rod failure problem, its a bearing failure. My bet is your engine has had oil problems sometime during it's life.

Even the best engine will fail if it can't get proper lubrication, its no indication of how solid the engine is compared to another.

As for your power concerns, go ahead and have the heads worked over by an experienced machinist. A full rebuild + valve work + porting shouldn't be a budget breaker but ask for a quote first. One tip though, it aint gonna be cheap for quality work, so don't act like you are at a damn wal mart when talking to machinists, they will skimp you on work if you try to talk them down in price.

As for tuning, honestly the 1mz factory doesn't run particularly rich or lean even with some decent mods. The best thing you can do as far as tuning goes is switch to a megasquirt standalone. But then you have to spend a lot of time setting that up, and you cannot adjust your ignition timing (which is where the power is at) until you are on a dyno and have sufficient knock detection.



Want my advice, go for the head work, clean the lower and upper intake up a bit with some light porting, put it all back together and enjoy the better running/sounding/pulling engine that the 1mz can be. Otherwise you are looking at big bucks to go fast.

[ekopel]

What exactly is contained in the Jim's fuel mod? Can't find anyone selling any, so I will probably just fab up my own. To me, it looks as if it is a:

1 T Fitting
2 45* Angle Fittings (Attached directly to fuel rails)
2 Short Fuel lines
1 Long Fuel Line
1 90* Fuel Fitting (for top of fuel filter)

[bigbird]

PM asg14. he has actually figured out what is needed to piece one together. all it really is A.N. fittings and high pressure fuel line.

[Bdub215]

Originally Posted by bigbird

performance wise, im not sure...i know nothing about the 3mz hybrid.

3MZ block 1mz heads. there's a guy on youtube running that setup with a S/C search 3MZ supercharged