Ethanol in gas

[White95Cam]

I am concerned about running Ethanol blended gas (90%gas/10% ethnol) in my 95 2.2L. I Emailed Citgo and this was their reply:............................................ ......................

We will not transition to ethanol until the middle of February.

The addition of ethanol to our fuels is based upon the Energy Policy Act of 2005 (EPA05) and the New Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 signed by President Bush in December 2007.

The entire gasoline supply chain must transition to ethanol blended gasoline in order to comply with renewable fuel measures.

This transition takes time and cannot be implemented overnight to be done correctly. When ethanol is distributed, the pump must be marked as such to inform the customer of ethanol content.

Studies have shown that consumers can expect a 3% decrease in fuel economy as a result of the ethanol blended gasoline.

Thank you for contacting CITGO.

From: Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:09 AM
To: CITGO Internet Info
Subject: ethanol

Hello,
Could you please tell me if you add ethanol to your gas that you sell in North Carolina?
Thank You,
Richard
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I wonder if any problems will arise beside the reduced MPG? I ran the 90/10 mixture this summer while in Florida and my car did not get as good of milage or run as smoothly.
Could this change be responsiable for some posting about people getting lower MPG?
W95C

[CamBOT]

In Canada all gas stations use 10% ethanol.

I've had cars for years run on the mixture and experience no problems related to the ethanol. When I visit the USA i do get lot more mpg with the ethanol free gas.

[Venom_5]

uh, my mpg is still 30mpg ... and we've been using 10% and 15% for over a year ... most of america is using it, and many stations were using it but are now required to post that theyre doing so on the pumps, this isnt new

you wont notice a difference .... if you ran E85 then you would have problems, nothing to be concerned about - i guess where ever youre at is way behind the curve

[ASG14]

Originally Posted by CamBOT

In Canada all gas stations use 10% ethanol.

I've had cars for years run on the mixture and experience no problems related to the ethanol. When I visit the USA i do get lot more mpg with the ethanol free gas.

Same. On the rare ocasion I get ethonol free gas in a diff state, I get better mpg. It won;t hurt the car. But if you plan to let it sit for a few weeks, add DryGas or a fuel Stabalizer to the tank as the ethonol absorbs water.

[DarkMastyr]

Ethanol is a replacement for MTBE as an anti-knock agent since it has a higher octane rating (116). This is because MTBE was found to leak into water sources and is a suspected carcinogen. It's fine at 10%, but much higher and it doesn't play too well with rubber components, which is why E85 and flex fuel cars are equipped with ethanol-resistant parts. It does release less energy per volume burned versus gasoline, which is why you would expect a decrease in mileage.

[White95Cam]

Originally Posted by Venom_5

uh, my mpg is still 30mpg ... and we've been using 10% and 15% for over a year ... most of america is using it, and many stations were using it but are now required to post that theyre doing so on the pumps, this isnt new

you wont notice a difference .... if you ran E85 then you would have problems, nothing to be concerned about - i guess where ever youre at is way behind the curve

Sometimes being "being behind the curve is not a bad thing".
My trip this past year is what got me thinking about this. Some tanks I got 33MPG and some tanks I got as low as 28MPG. Right now with the drop in prices this doesn't seem like a big deal, but when it returns to $5.00 or more a gallon people will be screaming about MPG again. I searched last night and found out that in NC dealers are not required to post on the pumps if the fuel contains 10% ethanol. This was changed a few years ago. There are 7 or 8 states that do not require that it be posted.
I also discovered that aviation fuel is 100% petrol and contains no ethanol because of FAA standards. I am hoping that ethanol will be discontinued since it caused a rise in food prices and its effect on MPG.
Not that this is the place for it but, Darn Bush...another screwed up mandate from his office.
W95C

[Venom_5]

well like i said, i get 30mpg ... which is still plenty ... and the cars had E10/E15 in it for over a year ... and i could squeeze 33mpg out of it with this gas if i didnt have such a leadfoot

[toyomoho]

In this area ethanol has been used in gasoline long before Bush came along.

[bcp477]

I do not want to defend Bush in any way, because I HATE the b*%$ard, but, the inclusion of ethanol (10 %) in gasoline predated him...and had nothing to do with his administration. Besides, his ilk seem to be basically against ANY environmental regulations, so it is not likely that such a thing would be adopted under his regime, in any case. It was first adopted in the late 90's as a (relatively inexpensive) way to improve octane levels, since T-lead was to be banned. Everyone jumped on the bandwagon with it because it WAS cheap, as compared to other methods of achieving the same result (such as removal of lower-octane hydrocarbons from gasoline by higher refining levels, which would have reduced yields by 10 - 20 %). If it helps your attitude any, ethanol does provide a cleaning effect inside your engine, though this is small.

[nukem678]

Yeah i herd that MTBE was pretty nasty shit and thousands of gallons of that stuff has found its way into water supplies.

"I Just do what the government says" Until i disagree.

[White95Cam]

Originally Posted by bcp477

I do not want to defend Bush in any way, because I HATE the b*%$ard, but, the inclusion of ethanol (10 %) in gasoline predated him...and had nothing to do with his administration. Besides, his ilk seem to be basically against ANY environmental regulations, so it is not likely that such a thing would be adopted under his regime, in any case. It was first adopted in the late 90's as a (relatively inexpensive) way to improve octane levels, since T-lead was to be banned. Everyone jumped on the bandwagon with it because it WAS cheap, as compared to other methods of achieving the same result (such as removal of lower-octane hydrocarbons from gasoline by higher refining levels, which would have reduced yields by 10 - 20 %). If it helps your attitude any, ethanol does provide a cleaning effect inside your engine, though this is small.

I really did not know that I had an "attitude" I am just stating what the people at Citgo told me via email: "The addition of ethanol to our fuels is based upon the Energy Policy Act of 2005 (EPA05) and the New Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 signed by President Bush in December 2007". I believe that Bush was in office then.

W95C

[rty]

In Canada all gas stations use 10% ethanol.

Really? At Shell I didn't see any ethanol labels. Although I could have missed them or they just don't tell you.

Anyways, 3% of 30 mpg is 1 mpg. I don't think I would be able to tell a difference. My car runs fine and I don't care that there would be a 0.6 or 0.9 difference in mpg if they used something other than ethanol.

[White95Cam]

The owners manual states that 10% ethanol is ok to run but it also said not to use it if you have any driveabilty problems.
Any members here use only Top Tier gasoline? www.toptiergas.com
W95C

[CamBOT]

Since gas prices dropped to about 66 cents CAD a liter.

Which is about 2.03 USD / Gal (at 66 cents a liter, converted to USGal and using todays exchange rate)

I can afford to use premium shell gas, which is 91 octane with "V-power" (whatever that means)

My car likes it better than 87 unleaded but the 91 still has 10% ethanol.

I do get overall better MPG even with 87 shell gas. Maybe its just me, or shell gas, or the increased compression from the higher octane...i just hope these prices last.

[White95Cam]

Originally Posted by CamBOT

Since gas prices dropped to about 66 cents CAD a liter.

Which is about 2.03 USD / Gal (at 66 cents a liter, converted to USGal and using todays exchange rate)

I can afford to use premium shell gas, which is 91 octane with "V-power" (whatever that means)

My car likes it better than 87 unleaded but the 91 still has 10% ethanol.

I do get overall better MPG even with 87 shell gas. Maybe its just me, or shell gas, or the increased compression from the higher octane...i just hope these prices last.

I see that both brands you prefer are on the top tier list. The only TT brand in my area that I have access to is Chevron.
W95C