Timing Belt Help.

[Poser]

So my gen4 i4 camry had its timing belt snap while in operation. I understand this is worst case scenario even for a non-interference engine. I am in the process of replacing the belt, pulleys, tensioner, water pump and oil seal.


Couple of questions:

1. When aligning the number one cylinder piston to TDC, are there any particular cautions I should observe?

2. It is safe to align to TDC even though the belt snapped during operation, correct?

3. When removing the old, oil swelled gaskets from the timing belt covers... what is the best method for removing the gasket completely and prepping the surface for new gaskets?

Thanks

~poser

[toyomoho]

1) No. Rotate the pulley until the hole in the spoke is aligned with the notch on the cam bearing.

2) Yes, howwever rotating the cam pulley is harder then the crank due to valve tran resistance.

3) The timing cover gasket is a rubber type material held in place by a groove in the timing cover. It should just come off with the cover but may be broken or damaged by the oil. Its job is to keep out water debris but it is not fluid tight like an oil pan gasket.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by toyomoho

1) No. Rotate the pulley until the hole in the spoke is aligned with the notch on the cam bearing.

2) Yes, howwever rotating the cam pulley is harder then the crank due to valve tran resistance.

3) The timing cover gasket is a rubber type material held in place by a groove in the timing cover. It should just come off with the cover but may be broken or damaged by the oil. Its job is to keep out water debris but it is not fluid tight like an oil pan gasket.

Thank you much.

I am going to do all of the cleaning, disassembly and maintenance before worrying about TDC... this can wait until I physically go to install the new belt.

The gasket I am referring to is held into place by adhesive in the channel that runs the length of the cover (much like the gasket on a fridge). However, I found that a simply flat head (computer component sized) fills the channel nicely and serves to scrape out the old gasket completely (or almost).

Any other suggestions?

[toyomoho]

I suggest you do the best at cleaning the groove. If required use silicone seal to fill the gaps.

Goo-Gone may help remove the sticky material.

Again the gasket seal is not critical.

[new echo owner]

toyomoho is correct, the gasket is not critical for the operation of the vehicle; however, if you want to put some gasket material back on, you can either get some from a dealer which might not be easy, since it probably only comes with a gasket kit, which would be costly. Or you can get some foam insulation strips from Home Depot or hardware store.

N.E.O.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by toyomoho

I suggest you do the best at cleaning the groove. If required use silicone seal to fill the gaps.

Goo-Gone may help remove the sticky material.

Again the gasket seal is not critical.

Will do.

Originally Posted by new echo owner

toyomoho is correct, the gasket is not critical for the operation of the vehicle; however, if you want to put some gasket material back on, you can either get some from a dealer which might not be easy, since it probably only comes with a gasket kit, which would be costly. Or you can get some foam insulation strips from Home Depot or hardware store.

N.E.O.

Thank you. The gaskets on the lower cover need to be replaced, as the oil seal went bad and coated the area with engine oil. The gasket kit is a lil pricey at 29.99, but the weather stripping seemed to be too bulky... though I am going to see what I can do with an exacto.

Thanks again.

[dz63]

My gaskets were soaked with oil and falling apart too. I scraped the old off with a thin slot screwdriver and used paint thinner followed by methyl hydrate alcohol to prep the surface for the new gasket. Click on this link

DIY: GEN3 Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change - Part 1

and scroll down to step 26.

These are the part numbers and cost for a 1996 4cylinder 5SFE engine.
Upper timing belt cover gasket (long) Toyota #11329-74080 $8.30
Upper timing belt cover gasket (short) Toyota #11319-74030 $6.80
Lower timing belt cover gasket Toyota #11328-74060 $8.30

The cost of the OEM stuff is totally ridiculous IMO, but it sticks really good - much better than any weather stripping you will buy from HD, plus the size is like 3/16" square - I don't think you will find this in any of the big box stores. The stuff that Toyota sells looks like open cell Neoprene - nothing like the original stuff that came with the car.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by dz63

My gaskets were soaked with oil and falling apart too. I scraped the old off with a thin slot screwdriver and used paint thinner followed by methyl hydrate alcohol to prep the surface for the new gasket. Click on this link

DIY: GEN3 Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change - Part 1

and scroll down to step 26.

These are the part numbers and cost for a 1996 4cylinder 5SFE engine.
Upper timing belt cover gasket (long) Toyota #11329-74080 $8.30
Upper timing belt cover gasket (short) Toyota #11319-74030 $6.80
Lower timing belt cover gasket Toyota #11328-74060 $8.30

The cost of the OEM stuff is totally ridiculous IMO, but it sticks really good - much better than any weather stripping you will buy from HD, plus the size is like 3/16" square - I don't think you will find this in any of the big box stores. The stuff that Toyota sells looks like open cell Neoprene - nothing like the original stuff that came with the car.

Are you kidding me... your tutorial has been like a bible to me, I wouldnt have dared to engage in this project based on the instructions in the haynes manual alone. I have been studying it for the last week... reading it, and reading it again and again. Great job

Unfortunatley, for the gen4 99 4cyl 5SFE @ the local (good) toyota dealer, the parts department has upped the prices. Upper long $11.30, upper short $8.61, lower $9.30. I shelled out the cash anyway... as nothing at lowes or HD was satisfactory.

Quick side questions:

1. Is Isopropyl a fair enough substitute for methyl hydrate... or will that damage or insufficiently prepare the surface

2. The top bolt housing on the lower timing belt cover is cracked and barely hanging on. Should I replace the cover or use silicone to repair the area and then place the new gasket?

I am currently working on creating a crankshaft pulley lock device... as you can bet there is no way in hell I am going to risk damaging the teeth on my flywheel with a prybar (haynes can kiss my @$$).

Currently my buddy and I are thinking of getting some chicken wire metal fence posts, cutting them down....using a washer and bolting them to the pulley. Then bolting two hand grips to the posts (linking them together). I have neither the access nor the skills to weld a "club".... which was mighty bad ass I might add.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Great job on the write-up... seriously good information.

[dz63]

1. Isopropryl is fine. Any alcohol to remove the residual oil so the gasket sticks is OK.
2. IMO, don't shell out your hard earned money for a new cover. Try to fix the old hole with some epoxy or other adhesive - maybe use a washer to distribute the pressure? If it breaks off, I wouldn't sweat it - it is only a dust over. In my experience, silicone doesn't work well as an adhesive.
3. Sounds like an interesting tool. It doesn't have to look pretty as long as it does the job. You'll have to post a photo when you get it done.

You guys will do fine...Good Luck!

[Poser]

Just an update...

The Crankshaft pulley has now claimed:

1 dremmel (used for fabbing a failed device)
4 M6 x1.0 x50mm bolts
1 1/2" to 3/8" drive adapter (should have started with a 19mm 1/2" drive socket... stupid me)
2 knashed knuckles

This summabitch is stubborn. I think we finally have a solution. Will post pictures of the device if it works.

Question though: If I was to tap the 6mm bores to 8mm bores, would it cause significant enough fatigue to the pulley so as to compromise it?

[Hajoca]

Originally Posted by Poser

Question though: If I was to tap the 6mm bores to 8mm bores, would it cause significant enough fatigue to the pulley so as to compromise it?

Should not fatigue the metal since the tap cuts out the metal as you turn it.

[dz63]

IMO, increasing the bore and re-tapping the holes to 8mm will have no negative effect on the strength of the pulley.

If you lived close by, I would be happy to loan you my tool for free. Note that the M6 bolts bent slightly on me too and my tool came very close to the pulley. I'm not sure why Toyota designed the pulley with such puny bolts - seems like they are way undersized to me.

At this point, you might want to consider using the starter blip method and save your homemade tool for tightening.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by dz63

IMO, increasing the bore and re-tapping the holes to 8mm will have no negative effect on the strength of the pulley.

If you lived close by, I would be happy to loan you my tool for free. Note that the M6 bolts bent slightly on me too and my tool came very close to the pulley. I'm not sure why Toyota designed the pulley with such puny bolts - seems like they are way undersized to me.

At this point, you might want to consider using the starter blip method and save your homemade tool for tightening.

Can the starter really generate enough torque to break the bolt. I swear to you... it feels like it is torqued to 180 FT LBs, not 80.

I have a buddy who works at a lexus dealership... he was describing the tool they use there to break the bolt, something with a chain... sounds kinda S&M to me, but if I cant get it with the 2"x1/2"x36" crown bolt bar that we drilled to fit over the crank pulley (with a hole for a direct connection with 19mm 1/2" drive impact socket)... I will entertain anything at this point.

dz... thanks for the offer. I am probably going to tap the holes to 8mm, just to see if I can avoid snapping another bolt in the pulley (would 10mm be to aggressive)

[new echo owner]

Have you try using an impact wrench to loosen the bolt?

The tool that Toyota use to hold the crank pulley is on page 2 and 3 if you are interested in ho it looks like: http://www.camrystuff.com/manuals/Gen4/Preparation.pdf; 09213-54015 and 09330-00021 are the ones that are referred to in the FSM for holding the pulley while loosening the bolt.

The other way is to use a chain wrench as your buddy had suggested, but you do need a piece of old belt between the pulley and the wrench, otherwise, it will damage the pulley:http://www.jackstoolshed.zoovy.com/p...&utm_campaign= .

N.E.O.

[dz63]

I can't vouch for it personally, but I have read that the starter will generate enough torque to loosen the bolt.

http://www.baktasht.com/_html/hosted/timingbelt2.html

There are some videos of people doing this on Youtube also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgY3-cAelWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_-Fs...eature=related

The other alternative is to use impact as NEO suggested. You could take it to your local garage and get them to loosen it up and then just snug it back up until you get home to complete the job. You will need your tool to tighten back up again.