93 camry - brakes ineffective - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

gaervin · 02-26-2009, 03:27 PM

My 93 Camry XLE cannot lock any wheel under any circumstance! It has new semi-metallic pads front and rear (the same as the type I use on my Dodge diesel pickup, they work GREAT!), turned rotors front and rear, a NEW master cylinder, new brake vacuum booster, brakes have been bled 3 times (twice by me, once by the dealer), and I have removed the ABS fuse. This problem has led to some pretty hairy moments in panic stop situations! The brakes do not want to lockup with or without the ABS system functional. With light braking the brakes seem to work fine, but in a panic the braking effectiveness leaves a lot to be desired. I have never seen a vehicle that you couldn't lock the wheels in with just moderately hard brake pedal effort. The dealer says the brakes are working normally!...???? Please help! I can't think of anything else to try.

Greg

frenum49 · 02-26-2009, 03:36 PM

Not entirely sure why you would want to disable your ABS. Camry brakes are not performance oriented. If you are serious about wanting shorter stops you can convert the rear drums to disc. (If you have rear drums that is) There is a DIY for this on this forum. If that is still not enough you can upgrade your entire system with aftermarket dual piston calipers and larger rotors and stainless brake lines. Just prepare to shell out some pretty substantial amounts of cash.

f15Camry · 02-26-2009, 03:37 PM

Isn't that a good thing that the wheels don't lock when you brake hard? or do you mean that it is not bringing you to a complete stop?

gaervin · 02-26-2009, 03:51 PM

I do indeed have disc brakes on all 4 wheels. I'm not looking for high performance brakes, I just want these to work like every other vehicle on the road. BTW - I pulled the ABS fuse to verify that the ABS system wasn't what was preventing brake lock-up. If not being able to lock the brakes on this vehicle is normal why would it need an Anti-Lock Brake System in the first place?

gaervin · 02-26-2009, 03:54 PM

The brakes do bring the vehicle to a normal stop under normal conditions, but I should be able to lock a wheel or 2 under panic conditions and force the ABS to operate. This is impossible with the brakes like this!

frenum49 · 02-26-2009, 04:44 PM

Well you could swap in stainless braided lines to replace the rubber flexy, mushy, 15 year old ones on your ride. This will give you a much firmer pedal. Downside to this is that you will need to replace these lines every couple years or less to avoid blow-outs. These lines have zero flex and are thus prone to potential failure after a while, especially if you live in an area where salt is used on the roads during winter. Unfortunately inspection of the stainless varient will give you little or no warning before they fail due to how they are manufactured. If this is not to your liking you could replace the said flexy, mushy, 15 year old rubber lines with OEM replacements. This will likely firm up your pedal quite a bit as well.

hill8570 · 02-26-2009, 04:49 PM

Did the brakes work to your satisfaction before the new pads? Since I don't know how you broke the brakes in, have you checked to make sure they're not glazed?

gaervin · 02-26-2009, 05:38 PM

I guess I should have mentioned that the car has 60K on the clock. It's the wifes daily driver. I only drive it on 2 holidays a year or if I'm doing a bit of maintenance on it. Issues like the brakes and such tend to take me by surprise! But I think that replacing the brake hoses with new ones sounds like it could make a lot of difference. I didn't stop to realize that the existing ones are 16 years old!!!! I'm surprised that I haven't blown one of them with all my hard test stops recently! The front lines on my 1994 Dodge diesel blew out at the dealers when I was having the transmission rebuilt the first time over 6 years ago!!!!!!!

As for seating the new pads, that was done per instructions, on turned rotors. I wanted a new surface to seat the pads correctly. That was about 800 miles ago. They should have seated by now. They do not appear glazed. And, as I've mentioned, the brakes seem to work very well, unless you need to stop in a big hurry!

***BMR*** · 02-27-2009, 12:12 AM

Could be the pistons in one or more of the calipers are stuck, or the calipers aren't floating on their pins as freely as they're supposed to.

BamZipPow · 02-27-2009, 01:20 AM

I'd check the content of those pads again. Semi-metallic made by who?

Go back to the factory pads and see if they stop. I wouldn't have let it go that long without tearing it back down to make sure.

the_professional · 02-27-2009, 02:13 PM

i have a 92 Camry LE with the same mileage range as you, im at 57,600 right now.

i had the brakes done only a couple of times considering the brooklyn stop & go environment i live in, I need to get them done soon, as they're squeaking. My brakes work fine. I have no ABS and rear drums, but your discs should lock up. My front brakes lock up under heavy braking, some times at the most unconvient times. But, your right your brakes should be locking up. I have toyota issued pads and rotors that the dealer put on.

Fruitbat · 02-27-2009, 03:58 PM

I had a similar problem on my old Celica (4 wheel disc) after a full brake job. Noticed it after I had to do an emergency stop while going a *tad* bit too fast. The issue was glazing from improper break-in, and getting the rotors "over-turned" (shaved too thin and too "blue"). I had to get brand new front rotors and pads, and do a proper break-in, that fixed it.

When you're trying to lock the tires (with ABS off of course, I Hope) are you flooring the brake pedal, or is it getting stiff before it hits the floor?

gaervin · 02-27-2009, 04:12 PM

I first noticed that I didn't have effective brakes after first doing a brake job using turned rotors and Toyota pads front and rear. So I bought the semi-metallic pads which have served me well on my truck and 10,000 LB trailer. Still lousy brakes. So I turned the rotors again and had the pads resurfaced. STILL lousy brakes! Then on with the master cylinder, brake booster, bleeds, yada, yada, yada...STILL LOUSY BRAKES.....Which brings me to here. And I want to thank all who have given of their time and talent to attempt to help me find the cure for this. I am ordering new brake hoses as I really think this is a good suggestion - Thanks to frenum49. I don't think it is the calipers. I always lube according to directions during brake jobs. I know how important this is. Also, if the pistons were sticking in the caliper bores the braking would probably be more erratic and pull to one side or the other. This thing brakes straight and true under all conditions. You just can't put enough fluid pressure against the pads to lock the wheels!

gaervin · 02-27-2009, 04:24 PM

Answer to Fruitbat...The brake pedal seems to behave and feel much like it does in other vehicles with a vacuum brake booster. That is, braking begins normally under light pedal pressure and and gets progressively more intense with more pedal pressure...to a point! There comes a point at which additional pedal pressure has no additional effect on braking. This occurs under VERY HEAVY pedal pressure, such as during a panic stop. If the vehicle is at rest and I apply pedal pressure, the pedal seems a bit spongy under heavy pressure. But, it feels this way in most other vehicles. I can MAKE it go down to some internal stop with enough pressure, but I can do that in my truck, too! The big difference is that my truck will lock ALL 4 WHEELS with only moderatepedal pressure. You really gotta be careful with good quality semi-metallic brakes on all 4 corners.