Cheapest way to replace blown front speakers? (98 LE component sound)

[BaconatedGrapefruit]

Hey everyone,

I have a 1998 Camry LE with the front component speakers (tweeters by side mirror), and my driver side door speaker is crackling very badly; I assume it's blown. The purpose of this thread is to determine the cheapest way for me to get working front audio (back speakers are both blown and disconnected). I'll list where I'm at and what I imagine my options may be, and any help as to what would be cheapest and easiest (from someone with knowledge or experience) would be greatly appreciated.

Current situation:
Source: Stock head unit with 3 cd changer
Amp: none, unless the component set-up came with a stock amp in 1998
Front tweeters: Stock units, both working
Front woofers: Stock, driver-side blown, passenger working
Rear speakers: Stock, both blown (don't care to replace)
Other: I have a Sony 22.5x4 RMS head unit from my last car, but ideally I'd rather not use it unless more power is absolutely necessary.

Option 1: Replace all 4 front speakers with a component set.

Option 2: Replace only the front woofers with component woofers, leave the stock tweeters connected.

Option 3: Replace the front midrange woofers with regular speakers; disconnect stock tweeters.

Option 4: Use any of 1-3, but install my sony headunit.

Option 5: Use any of 1-3, but purchase and install an amp.

Option 1 may be difficult because I would need a set with 1/2" tweeters to fit where the stock tweeters are, and component sets are more expensive than regular speakers. It could also be difficult accessing where the stock wiring splits if there's a stock crossover or filter. Option 2 might be cheaper than option 1, but it's hard to find low-end component woofers that don't come in a set with tweeters and crossovers. If the woofer has notably different sensitivity or power handling than the stock one, the stock tweeter and new woofer might be impossible to balance. Option 3 should be the cheapest of all, but I don't know if it would be easy or even possible with the stock wiring, especially if there is a factory amp. It would also sound worse than option 1. Option 4 requires additional expenses of a double-din kit ($20?), wiring harness ($10?), and labor for me to install an ipod connection (no tape player would require use of the aux in). It might have more power than the stock HU, especially if there's no stock amp. Option 5 would cost the most, require the most work, and probably require the sony head unit to be used. I would only do this if there's no way to get audio without it.

To figure out what would work, my most important questions for you are:
- Is it possible my car has a stock amp, and if so, how do I check? There's none under the seats, but there could be in the kick panel or behind the glove box, if it was an option with my sound system.
- If there's no stock amp, what kind of speakers could be driven with the stock head unit? Is sensitivity or RMS more important (e.g. would 92db/75WRMS or a 90db/50WRMS be better)?
- Is it feasible to go with option 3? If so, would I hook them up to the stock wire connected to the woofer, or would I need to trace back before a split in case there's a crossover or low-pass filter?



Basically I'm on a very tight budget and may have to replace the car soon anyway (PS fluid leaking, transmission lagging between 2nd and 3rd). I do a lot of traveling in April and May, so I need audio, but I'd hate to spend more than $200 unless I can take out and resell the speakers for at least half when I sell the car. Sound quality is not really important as long as it's audible, fairly balanced, and doesn't crackle like the blown speaker - the stock speakers sounded good enough for my needs before they broke. I have guides to accessing the speakers and the head unit, but not on a stock amp (if there is one - only info I could find was on 1999). Thanks to anyone reading this; any help you could provide, be it general knowledge on the matter, or experience with a similar model would be greatly appreciated. Links to stores for any recommendations would also be helpful. Let me know if you need more information.


Links:
Only component system with small enough tweeters I could find: http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_c...hp?comp_id=125

[skuttduck]

I have a 2000 camry LE that I upgraded the stock speakers and head unit in back in November.
As near as I could tell the only system that has the factory amp would be the JBL audio upgrade. Mine had the factory tweeters and they were just wired in parallel.

I was able to use my old Rockford Fosgate tweeters and used them in the door with the stock tweeter covers. They aren't bolted in like the factory ones, but I was able to get them to stay and they worked fine.

As for the factory amp, it would either be, behind the glovebox, behind the kick panel, or under the passenger seat.

Oh as for your choice of speakers, I do love how clear the JL audio speakers sound. I also noticed a huge difference in clarity when I changed out my stock tweeters.

[BaconatedGrapefruit]

I took the door apart to see if they were full speakers or just woofers, and it appears they are just woofers.



What size was the Fosgate tweeter you fit in the stock location? It looks like a 1.6" outer diameter is the biggest that will fit in there, and this is what most 1/2" tweeters measure (it'd be great if they actually measured the physical dimensions). Is it possible to get a 3/4" or 1" and remove the housing so it would fit? The need for a 1/2" is really limiting my choices for component systems, and the JL is a little higher priced and requires a little more power than I'd prefer without an amp.

I also thought of another possibility, playing off of option 3. I could get a pair of full-range speakers to replace the woofers, and then if the stock tweeters are out of balance (too loud), I could wire in an attenuator before them, instead of disconnecting them. Although it may just be because of the lack of treble, when I cover up the sound from the tweeters the audio just seems like it's coming from too low. The upper location of the tweeters seems to really improve the way my ears source the sound. Do you think this would be feasible?

I would probably get a full range with very low power requirements like this:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KFC1...=detailed_info
for as low as 40 bucks shipped.
And if the stock tweeters really aren't working, I could upgrade to these for $50 plus shipping from the cheapest stores: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_20608KS...13.html?tp=107

That comes out to almost as much as the JL setup, but with much lower power requirements. Can anyone confirm whether or not the JL would work with the stock head unit and no amp? It's rated at 10-50W RMS range with a 91dB sensitivity. The Kenwoods are 2-35W RMS with 92dB sensitivity, and the Kicker tweeters are 6-75 @ 92. If the stock speakers are just wired in parallel without an amp, I'd doubt they're even getting 10W per speaker, but I really don't know enough to say.


One last question: I assume I'll have to make MDF cutouts for the woofers. Is this correct? The 4 screw holes in the stock speaker harness measured about 6 7/8" from center to center, with the outside of the woofer about 6 1/4" in diameter:

Would any size speaker mount in the factory screw holes and not require 20 bucks and a day of sawing/sanding/painting?

Thanks for your help.

Edit: I just thought of another possibility. Could I just use the outs for the back speakers to power the tweeters separately from the woofers? Since they are just connected in parallel right now, that would give the full front output power to the woofer (probably not double because of different attenuations, but still an increase). Then the tweeter would get the full back output power, and I could adjust the balance with the HU's front/back balance. If this is possible, I probably wouldn't have to worry about the JL system not having enough power with the stock HU, and could just get those. All it would require is clipping the wires to the rears from the HU, attaching new wires and snaking them to the tweeter locations. This would work well with the JL system because it just has a HP filter, and no crossover. This would also work if I paired a cheaper full-range with the stock or a cheap tweeter like I mentioned above, because I could match the different power requirements from the HU's front/rear level controls.

And as long as I'm adding stuff, in case i DO need to throw in my sony head unit, what installation kit fits well in the double-din slot I have? I'd prefer if it allowed me to put the sony HU in the bottom slot, then get a plate/cover for the top where I can cut out and install an ipod dock, like I did on my Oldsmobile:


Thanks again.

[skuttduck]

Originally Posted by BaconatedGrapefruit

I took the door apart to see if they were full speakers or just woofers, and it appears they are just woofers.



What size was the Fosgate tweeter you fit in the stock location? It looks like a 1.6" outer diameter is the biggest that will fit in there, and this is what most 1/2" tweeters measure (it'd be great if they actually measured the physical dimensions). Is it possible to get a 3/4" or 1" and remove the housing so it would fit? The need for a 1/2" is really limiting my choices for component systems, and the JL is a little higher priced and requires a little more power than I'd prefer without an amp.

It is difficult to say what size the tweeters were. I got them about 12 years ago. I found them online earlier, but I would have to tear apart the doors and such to get the model number. I did find the flush mount bracket and the diameter is about 1" 3/4

You'll ask how I got them in there. I simply put them into the stock tweeter put two pieces of metal wire behind it, and then put electrical tape over the back. I have to be very careful when I pull these out.

I also thought of another possibility, playing off of option 3. I could get a pair of full-range speakers to replace the woofers, and then if the stock tweeters are out of balance (too loud), I could wire in an attenuator before them, instead of disconnecting them. Although it may just be because of the lack of treble, when I cover up the sound from the tweeters the audio just seems like it's coming from too low. The upper location of the tweeters seems to really improve the way my ears source the sound. Do you think this would be feasible?

The stock tweeters aren't too bad, but I really noticed real clarity when I put the RF tweeters in. I'm also running two PPI art series amps which are clear and really spoil me though. Your head unit might be just fine and you won't notice any difference.

I would probably get a full range with very low power requirements like this:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KFC1...=detailed_info
for as low as 40 bucks shipped.
And if the stock tweeters really aren't working, I could upgrade to these for $50 plus shipping from the cheapest stores: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_20608KS...13.html?tp=107

That comes out to almost as much as the JL setup, but with much lower power requirements. Can anyone confirm whether or not the JL would work with the stock head unit and no amp? It's rated at 10-50W RMS range with a 91dB sensitivity. The Kenwoods are 2-35W RMS with 92dB sensitivity, and the Kicker tweeters are 6-75 @ 92. If the stock speakers are just wired in parallel without an amp, I'd doubt they're even getting 10W per speaker, but I really don't know enough to say.

Hard to say on that one, but I would assume they would work without an amp. After all the stock unit powers 6 speakers, front 2 ohm load (because it is wired in parallel) and they strange as hell 7 ohm load in the rear. You could do a chat with the crutchfield advisors and ask.

One last question: I assume I'll have to make MDF cutouts for the woofers. Is this correct? The 4 screw holes in the stock speaker harness measured about 6 7/8" from center to center, with the outside of the woofer about 6 1/4" in diameter:

Would any size speaker mount in the factory screw holes and not require 20 bucks and a day of sawing/sanding/painting?

Thanks for your help.

Just remove the stock speakers, and drill the aftermarket one into the door with the clips and the provided screws (at least my JL audio ones were provided). Even if you wanted to put the stocks back in there the small holes won't even be noticed because of being behind your door.

Edit: I just thought of another possibility. Could I just use the outs for the back speakers to power the tweeters separately from the woofers? Since they are just connected in parallel right now, that would give the full front output power to the woofer (probably not double because of different attenuations, but still an increase). Then the tweeter would get the full back output power, and I could adjust the balance with the HU's front/back balance. If this is possible, I probably wouldn't have to worry about the JL system not having enough power with the stock HU, and could just get those. All it would require is clipping the wires to the rears from the HU, attaching new wires and snaking them to the tweeter locations. This would work well with the JL system because it just has a HP filter, and no crossover. This would also work if I paired a cheaper full-range with the stock or a cheap tweeter like I mentioned above, because I could match the different power requirements from the HU's front/rear level controls.

And as long as I'm adding stuff, in case i DO need to throw in my sony head unit, what installation kit fits well in the double-din slot I have? I'd prefer if it allowed me to put the sony HU in the bottom slot, then get a plate/cover for the top where I can cut out and install an ipod dock, like I did on my Oldsmobile:


Thanks again.

I'm thinking you might be making it more complicated than it needs to be. You should be able to just upgrade your speakers to run off your head unit without thinking about it. It's not like your tweeters are going to be sucking up so much power they will dim the headlights. Since the factory unit runs at the 2 ohm load then any other unit should have no problem.

How did you manage to blow your speaker anyhow? I had my factory HU hooked to the amps and subwoofer for 8 years and never blew the factory speakers. I also would never turn it up once the sound started to distort.

By the way my Amp is 25watt x 4 at 4 ohm

The speakers I have are
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_136TR65...Xi.html?tp=105 fronts

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_136TR69...Xi.html?tp=105 rear

I see you are in Michigan, if you are near me in Lansing and wanted to see how I set it up, just let me know. Perhaps that may help, that way you could also listen.

[BaconatedGrapefruit]

After 3 hours of work I got the bevel off to access the head unit (required so much force I actually bent 2 of the metal clips around their casing). Instead of risking not matching tweeter to woofer I decided I'm going to go with a component set and throw my sony head unit on (doesn't require a kit, so it won't cost anything to throw on if I just crimp the wires). It's fairly high powered for a head unit at 52W (26W RMS per channel), so I should be able to consider speakers rated for a 10-50W range, as opposed to the 2-35W range I'd probably be stuck with if I used the stock HU (it's only 15W per channel).

That means my chief concern is the tweeter size, so I can fit it in the factory location. I can probably fit an outer diameter around 1.6" at most (the stock tweeters are 1.3"), so that means 1/2" or a few 3/4" tweeters that have very little casing. The only 2 component setups I could find under 200 matching this are the JL Audio TR650-CSi I mentioned before (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_136TR65...l?tp=106&avf=N) and the Kenwood KFC-P707 (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_613KFCP...l?tp=106&avf=N). The price difference between them at the cheapest place is only 2 bucks, so that doesn't matter (117 vs 119 shipped). The JLs are rated at 91dB with a 10-50W RMS power range, while the Kenwoods are 92dB with a 8-65W RMS range. The JLs have textile tweeters and the Kenwoods are UFLC (dunno anything about either). I'm leaning towards the JLs because of the inline "crossovers" would make it easier to install, but if someone thinks the 1dB greater sensitivity and 2W lower power rating would make a difference (or something else better about them) let me know, and I'll order the Kenwoods.

Otherwise, if you know any cheaper or similarly priced but better component sets with tweeters that can fit in a 1.6" space, tell me that. I'm really pushing my budget at 120 bucks for these, but I think it'll be worth it to have them matched and in factory locations.

Thanks!

EDIT: Just found this Hifonics with a 1/2" tweeter for much cheaper: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...+ZXi+6.5C.html

Is there anything wrong with that? 2-100W, 91db, silk tweeters...pretty big crossover, but I could fit it in the door. They are 6 1/2" woofers, but that just means I may have to make an adapter out of mdf. For 75 bucks shipped, these are pretty tempting. Anyone ever heard any Hifonics?

EDIT2: Nevermind, their own site lists them at 30-100W, not 2-100W. Seemed kinda fishy since every reviewer was using them with an amp. If my head is rated at 26W RMS per channel at 4 ohms, would it count as 52W for parallel connected 4 ohm component speakers, since the load would only be 2 ohms on it? Or when they list component speakers as 4 ohms, does that mean they're 4 when paired (so 8 if they were driven separately)? If it would be 52W, I could get these and save 45 bucks over the other two options. Otherwise needing an amp would make these more.

[ONE_to_HATE]

Originally Posted by skuttduck

I have a 2000 camry LE that I upgraded the stock speakers and head unit in back in November.

since ur gonna get rid ov this car.. just buy his old set. *BaM* now there's an idea!

[skuttduck]

Originally Posted by ONE_to_HATE

since ur gonna get rid ov this car.. just buy his old set. *BaM* now there's an idea!

There's nothing wrong with my stock speakers, and I'm not against selling them.
Only thing that is crazy is the 7 ohm impedence on the rears though.

[BaconatedGrapefruit]

Alright. I found out 2 things that settled my decision today. First I confirmed that there is in fact a stock amplifier:


Secondly I gave up trying to find where the front channel wires split into two before the tweeter and woofer pairs:

It's not at the amp, or anywhere visible behind the glove box. It could be right below the electrical tape there in the door, but I'd rather not start stripping off all the tape and wire hoses because I know I'd never give up until I found the split (and I'd risk cutting a wire without realizing it).

This means I know I can power medium RMS speakers without addition expenses, and I do not want an external crossover since I'd have to access the split. And as I mentioned before, I'd rather spend 120 on something that will sound notably better than factory speakers than 60 on something that will sound worse because it doesn't match the stock tweeter, which I'd have to unhook anyway since it's already starting to crackle

So the only matched pair of components with an in-line crossover (filters) and a small enough tweeter to fit are the JLs. I can then throw in my sony head unit in the bottom din slot and a ipod dock fixture I'm making in the top din slot for another 40 bucks (wire harness and dock) in another week when I get the money.

I travel so much in April and May that even if I replace the car at the end of the summer it should be worth 160 bucks for easy ipod use and improved sound. Plus I can throw the stocks back in if I do sell it and use the JLs again or sell them for 50 bucks or so.

Thanks to everyone who replied or PMed me, and to all the people that have made guides or answered similar questions in other threads; those helped a lot too. I'll reply here if I change my mind or make a new thread if I have issues with installing it. See ya.

[skuttduck]

Originally Posted by BaconatedGrapefruit

Secondly I gave up trying to find where the front channel wires split into two before the tweeter and woofer pairs:

It's not at the amp, or anywhere visible behind the glove box. It could be right below the electrical tape there in the door, but I'd rather not start stripping off all the tape and wire hoses because I know I'd never give up until I found the split (and I'd risk cutting a wire without realizing it).

You couldn't find the split? I can see right there in your picture. Same as mine. Right below that blue piece of electrical tape is a white plug. Unplug that and you have the split right there.

[Manny1337]

youd be better off getting a better head unit. sonys arent all that great the sound quality just isnt there. but if youre just going for something cheap than go for it =P