Est Service Charge

[jmborchers]

Doing this all myself and taking my time at it. I'm looking for how many hours are typically allowed for this job:

Part I

1) Timing Belt / tensioner spring.
2) Water Pump
3) Crankshaft Seal
4) Cam Seal
5) Oil pump seal (looks like a VW O-ring type seal)
6) Oil pump shaft seal
7) Oil pump to engine block gasket

Part II

8) Head cover gasket (is this a gasket or just silicone?). It leaks and also need replacement.
9) Spark plugs

[hill8570]

Assuming 4-banger (5S-FE) here...

First time around, I'd allow a couple of days for the first project -- that allows plenty of time to make multiple runs to the parts store for all the things you forgot, etc. If everything goes right you can bang it out in four to six hours the first time through.

Valve cover gasket and plugs, one or two hours (plugs themselves, 15 minutes). That's assuming you don't get the valve cover off and shit bricks when confronted with 15 years of sludge -- cleaning that up c-a-a-a-r-e-f-u-l-ly can consume a day by itself). The gasket itself is some sort of rubberish material...don't think its silicone. There are a couple of half-moon plugs at either end of the head that should be pulled and resealed, too. Those plugs, and the sharp corners on the gasket where it turns to go over the camshaft area, should be sealed with FIPG (liquid gasket) before reassembly.

[dans01camry]

Well, for us first timers it isn't wise to also rush the job and end up cross threading or breaking something. Though I have changed spark plugs and other various crap on other cars, took me an hour with the plugs on my camry. The dang boots for the spark plug wires were stubborn and wouldn't slide on (even with a small amount of di-lectric grease) and the wires were an equal pain to plug into the coil packs!

[Simpler=Better]

Don't forget the individual seals for the spark plug tubes!

When I replaced my valve cover I didn't use anything beyond a new gasket, and I have yet to lose any oil. YMMV

[jmborchers]

Some things I hadn't even thought of. Thanks for the help.

The engine is 4cyl 5SFE (?). The goal is to get the service hours. How many hours would a dealer mechanic get paid for these jobs?

I agree with the posts. No sense in first time at this job (although I've done timing belts before) rushing through this critical job. I only want to do this once so I want to hit everything buried under the timing belt at the same time.

[toyomoho]

If you have never done it doubt you'll be able to it in the Toyota Flat rate time, the dealer has all the tools, training and parts.

As hill8570 states suggest doing it over a weekend, make sure you have another car in case you need to drive to the autoparts or tool store.

Get the VW type O-ring at the dealer, the pump seal is a standard part.

Why are you changing the oil pump to engine bolt gasket (much more work and not normally required)?

Do a TN history search on what tools and techniques are required to do the job.

[jmborchers]

I'm not trying to do it in the flat rate. I'm just trying to figure out how much the flat rate would have paid. Car already opened up, timing belt out, camshaft seal is replaced. I spent some hours making a 6mm x 60mm shoulder screw to be compatible with the pull I had to get the crank off. But that worked the first time and now I have those screws for forever.

I'm guessing you don't think the engine bolt gasket is not normally required because it's a metal seal gasket. I haven't looked carefully at the gasket. If it's a metal gasket you're exactly right it would never need to be changed unless there is some problem with it.

Tonights goal after work is to get the oil pump off, two seals replaced and oil pump back on. Tomorrow afternoon's goal will be the water pump.

My wife is using the mini-van so it's only a slight inconvience to have to car unavailable.

[jmborchers]

If all goes well the car will be bottled up today. I have to put the timing belt back on. The hardest part was making the special tools required to pull the crankshaft pulley and loosen the camshaft pulley and oil pump pulley. The next hardest was removing the oil pump seal. It had something that looked like a stainless steel cable in it to enforce the sealing surface.

I didn't have to use a pull to remove either oil or cam pulley.

Although the dealer's guide doesn't point it out it is possible to carefully remove the head cover (valve cover) without removing the intake assembly.

The oil pump looked good with 98K, about 3 thousandths clearance on the oil pump roater with allowance of up to 8. I didn't take apart the oil pump relief valve.

The timing belt was still in excellent shape and probably could have lasted another 50K. The tension on the timing belt was insufficient, however.

I am leaving the spark plug change until next week. Since I touched the wires to remove the head cover to change the gasket I don't want to at the same time change the plugs. This way if something goes wrong and I get a miss or something else I know it's not because of the plugs. I know it's the wires.

[JohnGD]

You may want to retorque the cover once after 30 minutes. From center-out.

The timing belt starts to stretch after 50K miles see and slightly retarded timing. Sure, the lack of an automatic tensioner means a loose belt.

If you haven't got the plugs I'd recommend NGK Iridium-IX. Great plugs (~$7.5 each + shipping). A cheaper alternative is the G-Power platinum at ~$2.75. Both for the finer center electrodes.

And always check NGK application catalog for proper usage:
www.ngksparkplugs.com

Originally Posted by jmborchers

If all goes well the car will be bottled up Although the dealer's guide doesn't point it out it is possible to carefully remove the head cover (valve cover) without removing the intake assembly.

The oil pump looked good with 98K, about 3 thousandths clearance on the oil pump roater with allowance of up to 8. I didn't take apart the oil pump relief valve.

The timing belt was still in excellent shape and probably could have lasted another 50K. The tension on the timing belt was insufficient, however.

I am leaving the spark plug change until next week. Since I touched the wires to remove the head cover to change the gasket I don't want to at the same time change the plugs. This way if something goes wrong and I get a miss or something else I know it's not because of the plugs. I know it's the wires.

[JohnGD]

Also check out the spark plug pictures:

http://info.rockauto.com/NGK/DetailPlug.html

Standard is what we don't use these days.

Because G-Power doesn't cost that much more.

And paying any more then why not the Iridium-IX?

Because Toyota is using Iridium with a platinum ground pad (such as the Laser Iridium).

With Toyota spec'ing Laser-Iridium good for 120K miles I don't know why anybody would want the old platinums?

Anyone?

[jmborchers]

There's a warning sticker on the car timing belt cover that says a dual ground must be used on the plugs. That's what is in the car and the plugs look pretty good so I left them. Car is all back together.

Little difficulty getting all the air out of the coolant lines so the gauge doesn't go berserk.

have to continue to check for leaks and check the Antifreeze mixture and refill as necessary.

next job suspension rattle and fuel filter.

[JohnGD]

Yeah, that generation of Toyota engine use the waste spark system. They realized it was a big mistake and got rid of it.

However, NGK catalog's plugs would work fine.

Originally Posted by jmborchers

There's a warning sticker on the car timing belt cover that says a dual ground must be used on the plugs. That's what is in the car and the plugs look pretty good so I left them. Car is all back together.

[jmborchers]

The car is back open for oil leak repair. The dealer's guide doesn't specify but definately use loctite 242 on the oil pump bolts. I think the 78 in lb spec maybe to low. I had done multiple passes but it isn't enough. Everything else looks fine. It's amazing how fast one can get the car apart once you know all the tricks.

[jmborchers]

Oil pump o-ring jumped out of the groove during re-installation. This is what caused the bolts to appear loose as the o-ring got destroyed and pushed out of the way.

Any one have a trick to keep the oring in place when trying to jiggle the oil pump back into place on the 5FSE?

[jmborchers]

Use vasoline it works really good. All bolted up and leak tight.

Hint: Recommend tightening P/S belt assembly before putting back the engine mount. It's easier to reach the top P/S bolt without the braket in the way.