is it normal? radiator sucks most of reserve coolant day after flushing

[fenixus]

quick question to all those people that did a coolant flush themselves.
is it normal that radiator the day after flushing sucks most (or half) of reserve coolant after shutting down the engine (parked for about an hour or so).

After I was done with flushing (3 times with distilled water) and after filling radiator with RED Toyota LLC antifreeze, I idled it for 10 mins with heater on at max blast (actually i was driving it a bit locally with heater on). concentrated coolant from radiator had to mix with distilled water from engine block (whatever there was, had to consist of over 90% distilled water - left over from flushing process).
I also then opened radiator cap letting it depressurize (lots of air was in there) and topped it up with coolant again and refilled reserve tank with 50/50 mix of RED and distilled water until FULL mark.
next morning I noticed reerve tank showing LOW, so i topped it up again.

and again after driving for an hour or so and parking car, I noticed coolant level in reserve tank dropped to middle between HIGH and LOW. is it normal after flushing?

all looks good, no leaks, engine temp is below half of scale on gauge always no matter how hard I abuse it
just wanna make sure i'm safe.

thank you!

[95PimpingCamry]

That's normal. The cooling system is letting out air when hot and running, then when it cools down it is sucking in coolant from the over flow tank instead. It will do this until there is no more air left in the system.

[fenixus]

i see

you made me feel much better. thanks 95PimpingCamry!

[whip_cracker]

Mate,

I'd just let it idle for about 1/2 an hour with the filler cap off. Did this a month or so ago... just wait for ALL and I mean, ALL bubbles to stop. Turn the heater on in the car at the same time though.

Since I replaced my coolant then, I haven't lost any coolant at all. Good luck mate.

[fenixus]

thanks whip_cracker.
the reason why i didn't idle car with cap off after filling radiator with coolant, was to avoid red concentrated coolant spitting all over the engine compartment (replaced v-belts at the shop a week before) ... although i did allow it to idle for 10 mins with cap off when idling (heater on) between flushing with distilled water (3 times). I think it didn't change much though, because i noticed on 2 occasions (talking about flushing radiator) engine temp rising up after 5 mins, so there was still air in system (heater was on at full blast for the whole time).

ahhh, it's a long story, anyways when i was flushing it i discovered the heater was only blowing air but it wasn't hot. fixed it after 3rd radiator drain by replacing heater MAXI fuse (was looking good, but didn't work anyways)...

all seems good now though. checked coolant half hour ago and it sits on FULL mark for the afternoon part of day. so i guess it burped all air our already and is full

[JohnGD]

On cars having this kind of problem, you can just tighten the rad cap. Idle it around 1500-2000 RPM until the the radiator fan comes on twice. Then let it cool down (better for a few hours). Refill when cool. This helps to boil out the air.

Originally Posted by fenixus

thanks whip_cracker.
the reason why i didn't idle car with cap off after filling radiator with coolant, was to avoid red concentrated coolant spitting all over the engine compartment (replaced v-belts at the shop a week before) ... although i did allow it to idle for 10 mins with cap off when idling (heater on) between flushing with distilled water (3 times). I think it didn't change much though, because i noticed on 2 occasions (talking about flushing radiator) engine temp rising up after 5 mins, so there was still air in system (heater was on at full blast for the whole time).

ahhh, it's a long story, anyways when i was flushing it i discovered the heater was only blowing air but it wasn't hot. fixed it after 3rd radiator drain by replacing heater MAXI fuse (was looking good, but didn't work anyways)...

all seems good now though. checked coolant half hour ago and it sits on FULL mark for the afternoon part of day. so i guess it burped all air our already and is full

[dz63]

Fenexius - three questions?

1) How much distilled water did you need to flush the cooling system?
2) Why did you dilute the coolant 50/50 when you refilled?
3) How did you dispose of the coolant/distilled water that you flushed out?

[fenixus]

thanks JohnGD, i think i read it somewhere like ehow.com as well, however i didn't follow it LOL
on other side I was driving on highway this morning (after first top up when res tank was on LOW mark) for half hour and still reserve tank became half empty after i parked at home and shutdown engine. meaning there still was some air in system.

I was doing the flush over the weekend, because i know this car has this problem and in past my mechanic had similar trouble 2 years ago when replacing water pump (plus additionally a timing belt at same time cause it's in same area).
he was running engine for about half an hour with radiator cap off causing all this new coolant fluid to spill all over the engine compartment (which f**cked up my v-belts by the way).

anyways all works good now, no biggie. i keep a 50/50 mixed TLLC coolant in my trunk, so really it was not a problem, i was just curious

Originally Posted by dz63

Fenexius - three questions?

1) How much distilled water did you need to flush the cooling system?
2) Why did you dilute the coolant 50/50 when you refilled?
3) How did you dispose of the coolant/distilled water that you flushed out?

1) i had 3 gallons of distilled water from walgreens. used about 0.75 gallons for each radiator refill after each radiator drain.

2) i refilled radiator with undiluted TLLC (so it mixed with distilled water in engine block) and topped up radiator after 10 mins with undiluted as well. a 50/50 mixture i poured into reserve tank and used it also for topping up later.
i read somewhere that's it's best to put only premixed coolant in res tank.

3) i flushed old coolant and waste water in the crapper at home. they say it's the best way and safe for environment (goes through a treatment plant).
some government/educational website said also (have no links now) that almost any household amount of automotives fluids can be disposed this way, as waste processing palnts will have zero problems with taking care of it even if everybody did it at same time or something similar.
hope it helps!

[dz63]

fenixus - Thanks for your helpful responses. Did you just flush the radiator or were you able to get the coolant out of the engine block and rest of the cooling system too?

[fenixus]

I only drained radiator, because I wasn't even able to find a drain plug on engine block, besides even if I knew where it is I believe it's not possible to reach it without lifting the car up (meaning go to the shop).

after each radiator drain I filled it up with distilled water (leaving cap off and drain plug closed of course) and idled engine (with heater set to full blast) for 10 mins, so it mixes with coolant mix in engine block. then shutdown, wait 15 mins until it cools down, drain it (don't forget to close the drain plug once done) and refill again and repeat.

that makes 50% of old coolant before initial drain, 25% after the first drain and refill, 12.5% after second one and down to around 6% after third radiator drain.
keeping those numbers in mind, after done with flushing/draining you just refill radiator with fresh coolant concentrate (i used Toyota Long Life Coolant - RED color) which resulted in around ~50/50 mixture on the end.
of course this way a lil bit of old coolant still stays in system, but you will notice that it is very insignificant, because after 3rd drain you will see almost clear water flushing out.

I also removed reserve tank (only one screw holding it in Solara) after the initial drain, took it home and cleaned inside out with soap. now looks almost like new.
i also flushed the hose connecting radiator and res tank, there was some black powder like sediment in it.

ah, don't make mistake i did, and after closing rad cap and idling car on fresh coolant (keep using heater on still), remember to open it up later when cooled down and refill radiator with coolant concentrate. there will be lots of air still in system which you need to release before system starts working correctly. if you don't do it, engine will be quickly overheating with heater set to off ... took me a while to figure that one out hehe

also, last thing i learned from Toyota tech when buying their coolant. once you have a 50/50 mixture of RED TLLC with distilled water in system, you will have to keep making a 50/50 mix at home from RED concentrate and dist water for topping up the reserve tank.
dude said that PINK TSLLC coolant mixture was designed for new cars only and besides its ingredients are slightly different from RED coolant (different salts). so he recommended NOT to mix them.

[djb2]

Hmmm, there are a few extra-paranoid suggestions here.

The 5s-fe engine clears air bubbles from the system on it's own, and may be safely operated while it is doing so. There isn't any point to wasting gas letting it idle for a half hour. Just do what you did -- fill the system at the radiator cap and overflow tank, then check the coolant level in the overflow tank after the next few drives. A shop would run it briefly, top off at the radiator cap, perhaps bleed at the temperature sensor, and send the customer on their way.

There are other engine types that won't clear air bubbles on their own, and require several rounds of manually bleeding air before you can operate them under load. So sometimes extra-careful bleeding is called for, but not on the Camry.

If your tap water has low mineral content, you can use it to flush the system rather than wasting distilled water. The local Toyota dealer very likely uses tap water for everything, so doing only the final flush and fill with distilled water is better than dealer service.

The recommended coolant concentration is 50-70% anti-freeze, with higher concentration providing better corrosion protection and longer life. The only down-side is slightly lower thermal transfer capacity.


If you use 50/50 pre-mixed coolant, you'll be well under 50% concentration because of the water remaining from flushing the system. And any later top-off that needs to be done with water will dilute the system further.

I usually buy full-strength anti-freeze, add it first, and then then finish with distilled water. On the Camry, one gallon of full strength anti-freeze will put you at the upper end of the concentration range. That allows you to finish with only water, not have to store anti-freeze, and later water-only top-offs won't dilute the system below 50%.

If you spill some coolant, don't panic. Just hose it down with plenty of water, and make certain that any puddles are really well diluted. The base gycols can taste sweet to animals, but anti-freeze has bittering agents to reduce its appeal.

Disposing of the coolant in a municipal sanitary sewer (not storm sewer) system is usually OK, and it's the best way to deal with it. Most treatment plants will break down diluted anti-freeze really quickly. Used oil is probably not OK, except in incidental quantities. Bacteria does eat the oil, but it take a lot longer and it has to be well dispersed. Neither should go into a home septic tank system.

If you have doubts about disposal, ask someone that actually *knows* about the operational details of your local sewer plant. Most people will react "OMG it's all toxic waste", so you aren't going to learn anything by doing an opinion poll of the uneducated.

[fenixus]

about the radiator coolant capacity. I bought 2 gallons of TLLC at toyota parts store and used less than 1 full gallon for radiator refill after flushing (and bleeding).
I used some left over portion of distilled water (it's very cheap in Walgreens, that's why i preferred it over the tap water, besides tap water may be harmful and corrosive in long term) to make a 50/50 mix of leftover TLLC with it. that's what i used for topping up reserve tank on few next drives. I keep that bottle in my trunk.

this way I will not worry about diluting coolant mixture too much in future. once I use all of that (pretty close to it after yesterday refills) I will make another 50/50 and refill my trunk bottle. although i have to store 1 gallon of dist water and 1 bottle of TLLC in storage closet at home. it's not a big deal, they do not take too much space and TLLC bottle closes tightly, so no spills, no smell, no danger to our house cat

I also have very old 1992 Buick Lesabre 180k miles V6 (slowly dying beast) and I use its trunk for storing all kind of automotive fluids, funnels, rags, dirty containers, etc.
In my Solara I keep only what needed most, meaning: clean bottle of premixed coolant, small funnel in a plastic bag and a toolbox, plus some xtras like a small snow shovel (no way to store it at home LOL), a beach umbrella and sun loungers LOL

[JohnGD]

When you see black powder it may be bits of rubber. So watch those hoses until the next coolant change.

I'd recommend replacing both the upper and lower radiator hoses (if not all other coolant hoses), thermostat, thermostat gasket, and the radiator cap next time as well.

Get the thermostat from Toyota, use only OEM here. As for hoses I like to use Gates and rad cap just any plain Stant at the local NAPA.

Originally Posted by fenixus

i also flushed the hose connecting radiator and res tank, there was some black powder like sediment in it.

also, last thing i learned from Toyota tech when buying their coolant. once you have a 50/50 mixture of RED TLLC with distilled water in system, you will have to keep making a 50/50 mix at home from RED concentrate and dist water for topping up the reserve tank.
dude said that PINK TSLLC coolant mixture was designed for new cars only and besides its ingredients are slightly different from RED coolant (different salts). so he recommended NOT to mix them.

[fenixus]

thanks JohnGD. i heard those above should be replaced when closing to 100k miles mark, so probably you right I should replace them when flushing coolant next time (in +2 years/+25k miles probably).

I didn't realize that "black powder" could have been bits of rubber. a little bit of that thing also came out of radiator drain plug during initial flushing. by watching them, you mean they may start leaking at some point in future?

[JohnGD]

Today's ethylene propylene rubber hoses are less likely to crack, burst etc like older hoses. They typically degrade from within. By periodically inspecting the hoses, follow the directions:

http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?br...ocation_id=541
http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=1022
http://www.lni.wa.gov/Safety/Researc.../HoseBlows.pdf

Originally Posted by fenixus

thanks JohnGD. i heard those above should be replaced when closing to 100k miles mark, so probably you right I should replace them when flushing coolant next time (in +2 years/+25k miles probably).

I didn't realize that "black powder" could have been bits of rubber. a little bit of that thing also came out of radiator drain plug during initial flushing. by watching them, you mean they may start leaking at some point in future?