2000 5S-FE low idling engine revs on driving gears (A/T)

[fenixus]

hi there,

i've been fighting with low idling revs on driving gears for some time now. by now i can say i did all it takes to fix 'em (spark plugs, wireset, fuel filter, alt&p/s belts, pcv valve, cleaned TB). i no longer have the problem on Parking and Neutral gear which is good, but for some reason issue still occurs on all driving gears (D, R, 1, L) at full stop.
it feels like car becomes shaky and loose/untightened parts start shaking (visibly) and i can hear some (plastic?) vibrating noise (not loud) coming from front of car. quite annoying it is, especially at stop lights ...

is it transmission related then?

also just discovered by double-checking repair bills that tranny was never flushed in this car (my old ride was, not this one) and it has currently almost 65K - i know my forum sig says 66k, just ignore it

current symptoms:

a) non-driving gears P & N
idling engine revs close to 4th bar on gauge (800rpms) or sometimes in middle between 3rd & 4th (750rpms) but that seems tobe caused by A/C running - all perfect to my taste

b) driving gears D & R and also 1 & L
idling engine revs close to 3rd bar on gauge (600rpms) or sometimes slightly above it (~650rpms) - visible shaking of loose items in car, can hear vibrating noise coming (i think) from front of car - there is no loose parts over there, double checked it!

shall i flush tranny then? will it fix it?

thanks for opinions people. this seems to be the last car annoyance i got... hopefully non-disastrous

anybody knows how much the dealer charges for transmission flush? local shops can do it at around $80-120+tax, but i'd prefer the dealer to get his done (and use their fluid).


also i was thinking about bringing car to dealer (first time in history of this car) and running diagnostics on computer. perhaps they can adjust the idling revs somehow through the computer software update or so. need to dig it up.

found similar case of Opel/Vauxhall Astra in UK that got fixed in dealership by adjusting idling revs. may try this out:
http://www.astraownersclub.com/vb/sh...t=12786&page=2

[fenixus]

booked appointment with Toyota dealer on this Sat morning for tranny flush and will ask also for checking on idling revs and maybe computer diagnostics.

today checked on transmission fluid and it's no longer a saturated red color as it was 3 years ago. now it loks more like a "pale" red, still clear though.

will let you know what came up after done.

[Hajoca]

RPM drop is normal.

Check for worn engine mounts, and dog bone mount.

[fenixus]

thanks for info Hajoca.

I found this VW DIY on replacing dogbone bushings - not sure if camry's same or even similar, but i may look into it in future (only 65k miles here!):
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1588015

also found this old thread about fixing engine mount / dogbone mounts on camrys:
Replacing dogbone mount help...

now the most important question to me - all the vibrations occur on drive/rear gears only and ONLY when idling at full stop. if i depress acceleration pedal even by a tiny bit (e.g. 100 RPMS more) then noise goes away. I have zero problems/noise when driving though.

based on this are you sure this is about the engine mounts or no?

[Hajoca]

Sounds like it.

The engine power is applied to the trans when idling in a drive gear (regardless Foreward / Reverse) the resistance from the trans is pushing against the mounts, which are elastic so the whole system is oscilating , at a certain rpm, the vibration level will be very strong, other rpm, the vibration will be low.

[fenixus]

ok, thanks Hajoca. I will look into replacing dogbone mount bushings then (this is the most likely one, right?). I hope other engine mounts are OK.

Hajoca, can you help in locating the dogbone mounting?
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_200...PNKA_1107.html

I thought it's located on bottom under car, but from this diagram it looks odd to me. is it 12363 (center engine mounting, insulator) ? where is it physically when looking at the engine while standing in front of car ?

nvm, will check it out after work (my wife drives this car).

after toyodiy.com:
2000 Solara SE 2.2L I4
12363-03070 seems to be a dogbone mount (Insulator Engine Mounting Center)
12313-03040 bracket

however when i try looking up this part (just the dogbone mount) on e.g. 1sttoyotaparts.com, it says: "12363-03070 superseded by 12363-74130" which is actually a dogbone used in camry gen4 mount, correct ?

here, someone made a swap of bracket and dogbone mount on camry 3/3.5 with gen4 parts (better vibration dampening)
camry shakes at idle
camry gen4, these are the swap parts they used:

12363-74130 rod, engine C $31.77
12313-74060 bracket $31.10

so the question is if I get the "superseded" OEM part 12363-74130 for my car, do i have to replace the bracket as well (likely) ?

EDIT:
actually all of online Toyota OEM parts retailers show the superseding info on 12363-03070 and force viewer to get the 12363-74130 instead. seems like it's now official to use the stronger vibration dampener for top/center engine mount on camry gen3 and solara gen1 then ?

will ask my local dealer to confirm this info while doing transmission flush tomorrow.

[fenixus]

ehhh, after work i put the car on hand brake and shifted it into D (and then R gear) with open hood i was listening to noise... i was also closely observing dogbone mount and front bottom one (couldn't see the rear one though).

not sure if it makes any sense to you, but the i was able to hear rattling/clinking sound coming from top of engine, meaning head (where spark plugs are) OR the throttle body ... also the vibrations were sort of most visible on top of engine and throttle body and air filter box, nowhere else.
both dogbone and front mounts were sitting firm, no visible vibrating, no shaking, no noise. does it mean the rear engine mount maybe worn or something is going on with the engine itself?

i was also able to hear a sound sort of reminding me a water going down the drain from a bath tub (not identical though). probably my water pump (less than 2 years old) was making it.

will see tomorrow, after transmission flush. perhaps dealer's mechanic would tell me something about it.

EDIT:

completely flushed the tranny ($179 + tax) at dealer, it runs and shifts smoother now. idling vibrations are still there, dude over there confirmed that anything he can think of would be related to engine mounts (same as forum users suggestions). so i guess when it starts pissing me off for good I will have to replace the mounts. seems the only one i can do myself is top dogbone mount, rest would have to be done by a mechanic.

ah and forgot to add, that parts counter dude confirmed new part number for dogbone is 12363-74130 and it fits the same original bracket. most likely they revised part number only and not the part itself (since it fits the same bracket), so my car probably had it from beginning. they sell it for $52+tax, so i guess internet deal is better after all ($34+s/h).

also they checked engine idling and said it's all within manufacturer specs. hmm i idle slightly lower than other users, but they say it's still in range, so screw that hehe.

and yeah, they confirmed my water pump making "the bath tub" noise... kind of sucks because my local shop replaced it together with a timing belt in Dec '07 (only around 10k miles on it). belt was aftermarket Duralast, pump not sure but i think 99% it is Duralast as well (may have been cheap Valucraft though, don't remember exactly what they put). next time will remember to use OEM parts for such crucial components... I just hope the pump stays working ... louder but still working. need to clean it up and check if it really leaks a little or it was just a dried pinky coolant that got spillt over there when i was flushing radiator.

[fenixus]

new update for now.

it got better by itself. thing is that a week ago i had to disconnect the battery while working on the alarm system. toyota techies said it takes up to 400 miles for car ECU to re-adjust to new conditions after each reset. currently it has around 350 miles driven and the idling vibrations are already much better (no more visible shaking at all).
the only concern is a little clunking/vibrating noise on reverse. in a few more days will see if it goes away completely or stays.