1996 Camry LE - Introduction and request for advice (LONG)

[Doh Nuts]

Hi everyone! I purchased a 1996 Camry LE over the weekend. It’s the gold/beige color, 2.2 liter I4 5S-FE with 167,000 miles. I drive a lot of miles, so I wanted something that would be decent on gas, reliable, with low cost of ownership overall that had a bit more room inside than a Civic or Corolla (or other compacts, for that matter). I did a bit of research during my car buying experience, went on a lot of test drives, and came to the conclusion that a Gen 3 or Gen 4 Camry was going to be my best choice for my driving needs. Also, I didn’t want a car payment, and wanted to buy in cash, so everything worked out well in the end. The fact that the paint has faded in large spots and the headliner is pretty tore up (but still not drooping) probably helped me score less than was asking price on the car. All that matters is that it drove well, passed inspection, and other than a few minor things I’ll document below, it runs fine.

Here’s where I need your help – I’m listing out some of my observations and expected goals below, and would really appreciate if you could answer any of the questions in each section below. Yeah, I know this is sounding like school…but your help would be appreciated.

ENGINE OIL
The engine doesn’t appear to have any oil leaks – my garage doesn’t have any fresh oil on it, nor does the parking spot I have at work, and I’m the only person that parks their car in either spot. Seeing as how the car is sitting at either of those two locations for about twenty hours each day, if oil was leaking, I would have noticed it by now. A check of the oil dipstick after engine is warm confirms this – according to the window oil change sticker, it is due for a change at 168,500 miles, and the dipstick is sitting just below the “full” marker. Oil is still mostly clear, not completely fresh but not dark either. The crankcase on inspection has a bit of oil varnish, but doesn’t appear to be caked on. I will be changing the oil for the first time next weekend, when it hits about 168,500-169,000 miles or so. I am kind of particular about parts and maintenance, at least with oil changes, so I will be using good filters – either Purolator PureOne, Mobil 1, Wix/Carquest or Bosch, depending on what I can stock up on for a good price. I’ve just ordered four PureOne filters but they won’t get here for at least three weeks. I plan on using 10w30 Valvoline High Mileage synthetic blend. Although I don’t think there are any seals that will open up and leak if I switch to synthetic, I will probably just run the synthetic blend and be happy with it. Does anyone have experience with running High Mileage oil in the 5S-FE motor with this kind of mileage (150,000+)? I've read up on Bob Is the Oil Guy, and they seem to think it is just fine.


MAINTENANCE (PARTS SOURCING)
I will be taking it in at 180,000 miles (sometime in January/February, by my estimate) to do a full 90k interval service, where I’ll have the timing belt, water pump and oil pump replaced, along with accessory belts. Spark plugs, wires, distributor, fuel filter, PCV valve will also be replaced. Radiator looks to have been replaced recently, and temperature runs pretty cool, but will replace the thermostat at the same time if necessary. Transmission fluid and filter will be replaced with a system flush at the same time. I think the previous owner took pretty good care of the car, but there were no records with the car. There’s also a sticker on the timing belt cover that has a bar code and some other information…it’s not clear that this is a timing belt change notice, but it’s possible that it is. In any case, for peace of mind (even on a non-interference engine), I’m going to do everything at 180,000 miles and “re-boot” the maintenance schedule.

Does anyone have a good source for these parts? I have someone to do the labor professionally, but I would rather source the parts myself, if possible.

MECHANICAL ISSUES
Here’s some things that likely need attention soon, that I probably could live with for awhile, but wanted to get some guidance on:

- The steering wheel and the car vibrates quite a bit at idle. It is smooth in neutral and at speed, but in any drive gear (R, D, 2, L) there is a vibration that seems to get worse as the engine gets warmer. The upper engine mount has already been replaced, so I’m guessing this is the fault of the lower engine mount or possibly wear on the subframe – at least, this is what I can gather from my forum searching. If I don’t address this for another few months when I take the car to have all the other 90k service done, will this be a major problem?

- When starting the car cold, either in the morning when I’m leaving for work, or when I start in the evening to drive home, the “oil” light comes on for about three to four seconds and then goes off. The engine, as is expected, is rather rough at this time, but smooths itself out as the engine gets up to speed. Again, as mentioned above, the oil is in decent shape otherwise and is not at a low level. I’m thinking that the oil light is caused by the oil pickup not working on cold start, and taking a moment to pressurize the oil through to the filter or to the oil level sensor? On warm starts this isn’t a problem.

- As I mentioned earlier, there's a bit of varnish in the case; would using Marvell's Mystery Oil in my next change help clear that out? Again, my search of MMO seems to indicate that it would help a little bit. I take long highway drives so it would have a chance to work through the engine and de-gunk it a bit.

MISC ISSUES/PROJECTS

- The wheels are the standard steelies with plastic hubcaps, tires sized at 195/70R14. The tires seem to be well worn, but since they are pretty hard compound, I suspect they should last through the winter before replacement. Do you folks with this tire size have any suggested replacements? I’m leaning towards something that is durable and long lasting. I don’t really need to factor in really good handling, but improved traction for braking and wet weather would be a big plus. I do like that I’ll be able to get four new tires on this car for maybe $250-300. I’ve owned previous cars where I’d be lucky to get two tires for that price.

Eventually I’m going to buy actual alloy wheels (15 or 16”), probably used, and try to fit some nice Dunlop Direzza DZ101s for the summer. While this runs contrary to my goal of low cost of ownership, it will allow me to directly test how much of an effect tires can have on a car. My hypothesis: that there will be a noticeable, although minor, change in handling and braking but at the cost of higher wear rate (particularly over a hard compound 14” tire). What kind of wheels might fit this (I have already been to tire rack and discount tire)…maybe an OE Toyota wheel?

- Power antenna is all kinds of messed up. I plan on doing the S2000 antenna conversion (it will probably be my first “mod” to this car; I really don’t need a power unit and the S2000 antenna is inconspicuous enough.

- Right now there’s only the Toyota cassette deck in there, and the left front speaker cuts in and out; my search of the forum reveals that there may be a speaker wire shorted or crimped that is causing the problem. In any case, it sounds terrible. I plan on installing a whole new system next spring (after I see what may be “new” at CES). I am doing a deck, possibly an EQ/crossover, three amps, new front and rear components (or a basic coax in back) plus either a 10 or 12 inch sub for low end. I’ve done some searching, but would you be able to point me towards installs by forum members on Gen 3 Camrys that I could use for ideas or inspiration?

Alright, I’ve taken enough of your internet time. Any help would be appreciated, and I hope to post and contribute extensively to this forum. Thanks again!

[chronoti]

rockauto.com where i get most of my parts.

i would look at the lower front and back mount they are hard to tell when they need to be replaced but it you put the engine in gear and you can see the engine rock they need to be replaced. but for the mout toyota mounts are the best they last about twice as long as after market.

ooooooooh it seems like the car either has a slight leak or burn and they did a use car dealer trick of dumping thick oil in it hopefully not gear oil (75w) just something like 20w. i would shy away from the synth blend now because you more or less see a leak now. def of you use mystery oil or any other cleaner.

watch craigslist and the for sale section, i got a set of factory 17" 07 se rims for 150. the other day i saw a set of 15" for 50, just wait and watch you can get some good deals.

welcome to the forum your going to love your camry.

[johnfrisco]

While your engine is apart to get the timing belt and water pump changed also get your camshaft seal replaced. They are very well known for going bad on your generation Camry.

My friend has a 96 Camry with 245K and his Camshaft seal went bad last Winter. Symptoms were that on cold mornings his car shook, but when it warmed up the problem went away. Eventually his temperature gauge started to go up while he was driving up hills. It turned out that oil was all over the timing belt, which caused it to start slipping. The timing belt also runs the water pump.

[Retrospekt]

I don't agree with chronoti when he said there is a leak/burn. My oil light comes on for a few seconds on cold start also. It's a common issue in the 5SFE, something to do with the engine retaining oil in the filter. (I forgot what exactly it was called). I made a thread about it here.

Tires: Go with BFGoodrich Traction T/A if you aren't looking for anything special. You can find them online for about 65 a piece. I got the whole set + balancing for 370 bucks with tax at my local Discount Tire. They were running a BGGoodrich 70 dollar rebate so it came out to exactly 300. The previous owner of my car had the same BFGoodrich tires on there and they lasted him 65,000 miles until he sold the car and I changed them. They're great for the price.

The speaker: The speaker probably just went bad. It happens, especially with fronts. You could go to your local junkyard and grab a Gen 3 speaker for 10-15 bucks for now.

The vibration is a very common issue with the Gen 3 5SFE. Some people are able to fix it by changing mounts (don't forget the torque-strut "dogbone" mount on the passenger side), but others have done that and it still shakes. A slight shake is just something that people learn to live with in these cars.

If you want to "de-gunk" your engine, get some SeaFoam. Put it in when you're due for an oil change, drive the car hard for 50ish miles, then change the oil. Make sure not to drive on it much longer than 50 miles or it might burn away gunk that is actually acting as a seal and holding in oil leaks. Your car will also shoot smoke like mad when you do this. It'll look like your car is on fire.

As chronoti said, Rockauto.com is a great source for parts. However, I would not buy aftermarket parts for timing belt changes. I've heard horror stories of failing water pumps after just a year, etc. I also made a thread about that here.
You can find a specific parts list there also. If you buy from the dealer, all the timing belt parts for a full job (Pump, belt, accessory belts, idler, tensioner, thermostat, cover seals, and ALL related oil seals) will cost about 350-400 with tax. It's expensive, but definitely needed on an engine with that many miles. My car had 148,000 miles with the original belt and I was spewing oil from my oil seal like the niagara falls. Putting a new belt on without doing seals is one of the stupidest things you can do. If one of them let's go, it can potentially get oil on the belt and that will cause it to start slipping teeth. Your car will run like crap and it will probably eventually break.

As for engine oil...just use Valvoline High Mileage. It's what I always used and it's great. Not sure about using Synthetic...but I wouldn't do it. If you do a lot of highway driving you should be able to do 4-5k on normal oil without it getting too dirty.

[Doh Nuts]

Thanks for the advice, everyone! This is my second Camry, I had a 02 XLE before, really liked it but traded it in for a 05 Accord V6.

@chronoti:
Thanks for the advice on rockauto.com; It's good to know about the engine oil trick by dealers. I guess where I'm confused is why I don't see any leaking seals anywhere. I put gloves on to check the viscosity of the oil on the stick (it's hot...!) and it doesn't "feel" any thicker than say, the Quaker State 10w30 conventional I've got sitting in my garage. I will also keep my eyes open for the classifieds and craigslist for wheels. I don't think I want to get much bigger than a 16"; ideally it would be a lightweight wheel to keep unsprung weight down, and give me a bit larger contact patch. The 14" are fine for me in the meantime, and I'll probably keep them. Like I said, trying to keep costs down. I live in California so I don't need winter tires or anything like that. I don't really care about flashy wheels, just larger size for better tire selection for the summer.

@johnfrisco:
Definitely will get all seals replaced at the same time (it doesn't make sense not to; penny wise, pound foolish). I don't see any oil on any of the belts, or really anywhere outside of the case. Seems like there is some build up on where the filter mounts up. The car doesn't shake violently or anything, just a little roughness, and then smooth after that.

@Retrospekt:
Yes, the thread you linked sounds exactly like my situation! The light doesn't stay on for very long...just long enough for me to notice. It didn't seem to come on the first couple of days I had it (and I was staring intently to see if any of the lights came on after startup). The first time I saw the filter location, I was excited by the easy access. Then that excitement turned to horror when I realized that the oil has to fight gravity to get to the fitler. Yikes! It absolutely makes sense that the oil doesn't retain well in the filter; it is canted seriously towards the ground! The Purolator PureOne filters that I really prefer are supposed to have really good anti-drainback quality, so I'm hoping that it will retain more oil in the filter and cut down on seeing the oil pressure light on startup. Likewise, I'll probably pick up some Toyota OE filters and other high quality filters as I can find deals on them. I will be changing the oil probably once a month (every 3000-4000 miles) so I'll figure out quickly what works and what doesn't! I have to think that Toyota knew that they had to spec a filter with good anti-drainback for this engine...right?

On tires, I may go with Kumhos, Yokohamas or the BFGs you mentioned. Like I said, nothing special, just a good, long lasting, quiet tire. Some of them are about $50 a piece online, figure in a price match at my local tire place and mounting, definitely under $300. I'd even do a Michelin, depending on the model (not MXMs) as I've found them to be a bit quieter than say Kumhos. Speed and limit handling are not really an issues, so race compound need not apply...

With the speakers, I will eventually do the entire system, but want to get the preventative maintenance and fixes out of the way first. The rest of the year doesn't look so great for me to have a weekend to tear the car apart for installation, so it will have to wait. If it really starts to bug me, I may get a pair of budget coaxials to put in the front doors off deck power for now and then move them to the rear deck when I re-do it all.

With the vibration...at first it was just a minor annoyance, but now I can't help but put it into N if I'm at a stop. I can see the top "dogbone" torque mount is replaced - the dealer did that as part of the purchase agreement. The other two can wait until the big service at 180k...unless you think it's just not smart to wait that long? From my search of the forum, I can tell that this is a pretty common occurence. What is the ultimate consequence of waiting "too long" to remedy this?

I might do the Seafoam route, but I don't want to pollute my neighborhood too much, and I don't want to open up any seals that are held together by buildup. Although from what I've read, seafoam doesn't really make leaks that aren't already there, it just magnifies small ones when the seals open up. I suppose I could remedy leaks by putting in Lucas oil stabilizer or something like that, supposing there is a leak afterwards. I'm still leaning towards MMO or something like that for a "slow clean" as opposed to the violent sturm und drang of seafoam. Not that I'm opposed to the show that a seafoaming process puts on, though...

On your advice (and others) I will definitely get the Toyota OE gear for the timing belt/water pump/oil pump/seals and what not. I figure it's once every few years for me, so the additional cost of that over aftermarket isn't a deal breaker.

I probably won't use pure Synthetic oil, as it doesn't make sense from my driving habits. I figure the High Mileage Synth Blend (which is 30% synthetic and 70% dino juice) from Valvoline will do the job just fine. Hopefully I can get it at wally world for cheaper than synthetic, otherwise I may just run conventional with an additive. I have run Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic, Mobil 1 Synthetic, and Quaker State Synthetic in my other cars with a 5000-10000 mile Oil Change Interval, and they look practically new internally. I switched the oil to synthetic from conventional in my wife's Odyssey with the last change at 50,000 miles (previously only conventional) so I am a big believer in synthetic normally...but for the Camry, with the frequency of change and driving style, I think I should be okay. It's almost all freeway driving (with a few stretches of stop and go).

[finfinder]

Another vote for the BFG traction TA's. I'm on my second set of these and I like them a lot.
Another vote for Seafoam also. It works.