shims with aftermarket brake pads ?

[fenixus]

stupid question. in my haynes manual it seems i shall have shims on each brake pad and some anti-squeal springs ... i'm puzzled as i got neither shims no springs, are they part of original toyota brake pads? should they be used with aftermarket pads ?

thanks.

[AlmightyCamry777]

The Haynes manual is good but not exactly the same as the factory manual. The procedures in those books are generally sound but i have found plenty of mistakes and errors. Just because Haynes says you need the shims doesn't mean the factory didn't do a brake modification omitting them on your production run of Camry, sometime within the period when your car was built.
When you buy your new pads see if they come with shims also. OEM pads from toyota often come with everything Toyota says they need, such as the shims - the cheapo pads from the auto parts often leave them out and tell you to use your old shims.

If you buy pads that dont come with shims, and you're still not sure whether you need to buy some or not, maybe the old shims will fall out when you take apart the brakes. With a little careful bending old shims can usually be reused. The shims are there to prevent brake noise, and thats all - also i usually use the anti-squeal goop that comes in a packet, and that you smear on the back of the pads before assembling them. I've never had brake noise using the blue goo either, seems pretty foolproof, at least for this fool.

[fenixus]

thing is that bought this car 3 years ago I believe with still original brake pads (prev owner never changed them). first brake job was done b firestone, so i don't know if I never had shims or they discarded them and aftermarket Wagner Thermo Quiet they used didn't have any.

today did another brake job myself and put Hawk HPS pads, again with no shims. not sure if i should be bothered with it or no hehe. new pads are quiet, so i guess i don't need them.

[JohnGD]

Toyota sells shims separately. The springs too. But you can get the springs as a kit with those little metal clips you put on the brackets. These can be reused.

See $9.47 axle hardware kit:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1042312

If you buy aftermarket pads, the better ones usually come with shims. However, the stick-on, soft Akebono ones were not very good, occasionally they "walk". So I tend not to use them. Besides, the pads are quiet enough that they don't need them. I understand Akebono may have gone to better clip-on shims. Haven't seen them yet.

You can clean and reuse the OEM ones.

Originally Posted by fenixus

stupid question. in my haynes manual it seems i shall have shims on each brake pad and some anti-squeal springs ... i'm puzzled as i got neither shims no springs, are they part of original toyota brake pads? should they be used with aftermarket pads ?

thanks.

[JohnGD]

That's interesting. I'm not sure what those are on the backing plates, but those look like stick-on shims. The picture is too small.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=155624

I know Raybestos top line comes with riveted shims. I guess if you run into noise problems then just get shims from the dealer. I find with Akebono ProAct the flimsy stick-on shims aren't necessary.

Originally Posted by fenixus

thing is that bought this car 3 years ago I believe with still original brake pads (prev owner never changed them). first brake job was done b firestone, so i don't know if I never had shims or they discarded them and aftermarket Wagner Thermo Quiet they used didn't have any.

today did another brake job myself and put Hawk HPS pads, again with no shims. not sure if i should be bothered with it or no hehe. new pads are quiet, so i guess i don't need them.

[fenixus]

ah, so not all pads will require them. anyone knows if Hawk Performance HPS pads are recommended to use with shims? the pads looked like they had a glued rubber plate on the back of them. will this do instead of shims? i don't feel like unbolting wheels and calipers again anytime soon ...

these I got now:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/hps.php

already did the bed-in procedure and they are great.

[JohnGD]

I couldn't see anything on their website about shims yet. But maybe those are the rubber shims integrated with the backing plate?? Well, maybe give Hawk a call (Toll Free) and ask?



Contact Information
Wellman Products Group / Hawk Performance
World Headquarters and R&D Facility 6180 Cochran Rd.
Solon, OH 44139
U.S.A.
+1.440.528.4000 PH
+1.800.542.0972 Toll Free

Originally Posted by fenixus

ah, so not all pads will require them. anyone knows if Hawk Performance HPS pads are recommended to use with shims? the pads looked like they had a glued rubber plate on the back of them. will this do instead of shims? i don't feel like unbolting wheels and calipers again anytime soon ...

these I got now:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/hps.php

already did the bed-in procedure and they are great.

[fenixus]

nah, no rush. let's wait and see.
also HAwk HPS website says those pads are virtually noise-free, i think they do not need shims, but it's just my opinion.

[ghettosled]

Originally Posted by JohnGD

Contact Information
Wellman Products Group / Hawk Performance
World Headquarters and R&D Facility 6180 Cochran Rd.
Solon, OH 44139
U.S.A.
+1.440.528.4000 PH
+1.800.542.0972 Toll Free

didnt realize they were right around the corner from me.

[Gibson99]

i just installed a set of hawks on my 98. i reused the factory shims on 3 of the 4 pads. only 3, because the factory shims were missing from that 4th pad. today i am going to the dealer to buy another shim because it squeals like a pig under normal braking. under hard braking it doesn't, but that's annoying to have to brake that hard on a daily drive. probably annoys the drivers behind me, too. but its LOUD and i can't imagine anything but a track car running these pads without shims.

Originally Posted by AlmightyCamry777

OEM pads from toyota often come with everything Toyota says they need, such as the shims - the cheapo pads from the auto parts often leave them out and tell you to use your old shims.

sorry, you got that backwards. Toyota sells JUST teh pads, and expects you to reuse the stock shims and wear indicator clips. most aftermarket (at least the regular parts store ones like o'reilly and autozone) pads come with shims already attached. even autozone's cheapest line, valucraft, comes with shims.

claimer: i currently work for autozone (nights and weekends as my 2nd job), and used to work for toyota as a mechanic in a dealership.

[fenixus]

huh, i'm puzzled even more now after Gibson's post. Here is the official reply from Hawk:

Kuba

Thank you for your support in Hawk Performance. On the HPS pads we do put on a shim on the back of the pad. This shim is designed to replace the OEM shim. Thank you

Mathew Roskey
Inside Sales / Customer Service
ph# 440-528-3211
fax# 440-528-4099

So it seems that this thin rubber "plate" on back of all Hawk HPS pads IS actually a shim replacement. Gibson what is the model of your brake pads from Hawk?

I used this one: HB320F669 (front set)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000COB09Y/...SIN=B000COB09Y

They are very quiet (no OEM shims on them).

[Gibson99]

the pads i installed came in a light beige box, not blue like that one. there was nothing but bare (painted) metal and some small printing (likely hawk production date codes) on the backs of the pads, which is why i transferred the shims over to the new pads. the axxis ultimate pads i removed (worn almost to the metal backing) DID have rubber shims bonded to the backs of them which explains why they were so quiet even with the missing factory shim. if the new pads also had the rubber backed shims, i wouldn't be hearing the squealing i'm hearing now.

granted, these pads came with the car when i bought it from tiem a year ago, and i don't know how long they were sitting on his garage shelf before he sold it to me... so they could be an older model Hawk HP that didnt offer the rubber backing option.

[fenixus]

yup, it seems so you have a different model of Hawk pads. perhaps the older Performance series or maybe a Plus model.

I guess i am all set then. wondering now if my former pads (Wagner Thermo Quiet) required external shimms or not . they didn't have it and were quiet for most of time until half worn. i think they were also adding up to my car's idle noise/vibration (on driving gears at full stop). with new pads all is so much better.