95 5SFE odd problem - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

doozergreengrass · 11-03-2009, 08:00 PM

Hi there.

I just recently bought a 95 Camry 5sfe, and its now having some problems. I have read through quite a few threads here but no luck. I'll try and describe the symptoms as accurately as possible. This is an Australian assembled Camry and probably has different emission devices/controls to U.S ones. Its rated at 93kw and is a manual transmission.

a) when engine heats up it becomes erratic. After driving for a long/short distance and coming to a stop, the engine revs bounce, sometimes staying at about 2000rpm for 10-20 seconds before lowering back to idle.

b) if it doesn't rev-bounce it does the opposite. after driving for a short period and coming to a set of lights for example, it'l idle fine for a few seconds then start to go into a stall.but not always. sometimes it stalls completely, other times it recovers on its on and comes back to idle or bounces upto approx 2000rpm.

c) it starts fine when its cold, however if it completely stalls after above described, it takes a lot of cranking to restart. this is pretty embarassing at the lights with a line of cars behind lol. not to mention a nerve wracking driving experience!

d) i have cleaned the t/b as best i could with t/b cleaner and at first it appeared to lessen the problem.

c) Engine oil and coolant have both just been replaced and 2 bottles of injector cleaner run through a couple of full tanks of petrol.

d) Last night i took it for a longer run than my usual 15 min drive to work (2 hour drive), and confirmed my suspicion something is up with the cooling system. I used to own a corona with the 1.8 3sfe engine and it temperature gauge always stayed at exactly half. with this 5sfe, on a cool day the temperature drops right away and i suspect the engine is running too cool. on this run last night, turning the heater on fully bought the engine temp back up again. however, on a hot day the cooling fans come off and on. do the engine cooling fans run off a separate temperature sensor or work with the thermostat, if they work in conjunction with the thermostat it is clearly opening and closing, so why would the engine cool down on cool days - shouldn't it remain at a constant half-way point on the gauge?

During this drive it ran well most of the time. sometimes when i floored it (gave it full throttle) in 5th gear at about 100kmh (60mph) it missed. other times when i floored it at this speed it responded instantly. It has a tendency to pull itself along when reducing speed in 5th gear for example deaccelerating from a 100 to an 80 speed zone the engine is pulling with no throttle - pushing in the clutch I can see the engine revving at 1800-2000 rpm before it returns to normal.

e) excessive moisture is coming from the exhaust, is it running too rich? it smells very odd the exhaust fumes.

f) the engine blows no smoke at all and since oil change doesn't appear to have burnt any.

g) it may be leaking a few drops of oil from near the gearbox. this is a r.h.d car but i assume the engines are still mounted the same as the u.s models?

h) i took the car to the local toyota dealer, one of their mechanics came out and had a look and suggested a coil problem or injector problem

i) when this mechanic looked at the car he said it had vacuum.

j) yesterday i removed the plugs (platinum tipped) 1 and 2 looked a bit sooty while 3 and 4 looked pretty clean. the gaps on all plugs looked pretty big though (approx 3mm at a guess!).

k) after I done the oil/filter/coolant change i let the car run in the driveway for half an hour at idle and it tried to do the stall a few times without actually stalling. but when it did this i could hear the engine gasp for air from somewhere but i'm not sure where!

If anyone can suggest any ideas it would be greatly appreciated, and i'm happy to provide any further info to help diagnose. I'm thinking of going to get new plugs for it now and a thermostat, but if the thermostat was stuffed how could the cooling fans switch off and on when the engine is at normal operating temp?!!

Cheers

doozergreengrass · 11-03-2009, 09:31 PM

Also, can anyone please provide a pic or description of where the engine coolant sensor is on the 95 5sfe as i'd like to give it a clean, or replace if necessary.

hill8570 · 11-03-2009, 10:07 PM

The fans use one temp sensor. The gauge is another sensor. The thermostat itself (what regulates the coolant temp) is yet another doohickey (a bimetallic valve). Is the engine slow to come up to temperature? The "engine cools down on cool days" sounds like the thermostat is stuck open.

Is this engine fuel injected or does it use a carb (sorry for the stupid question...don't know much about the history of the Aussie rigs). If this was fuel injected, I'd suspect the coolant sensor at the inlet of the engine (which the ECM uses to calculate mixture) is flaking out on you. I'd disconnect it after the engine is warmed up (which will cause the ECM to default to "warmed up") and see if the rpm bounce goes away.

How's the coolant level in the radiator and the overflow tank?

hill8570 · 11-03-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doozergreengrass

Also, can anyone please provide a pic or description of where the engine coolant sensor is on the 95 5sfe as i'd like to give it a clean, or replace if necessary.

Assuming this is anything like a US model, take a look at http://www.camrystuff.com/index.php?page=Gen3_Manuals , especially the section on the 5S-FE engine.

chronoti · 11-03-2009, 10:57 PM

i would look at the idle air control and some seafoaming

Mike Gerber · 11-04-2009, 08:45 AM

I agree will hill8570. I would suspect a bad engine coolant temperature sensor. In the US cars it's located on a water port, to the right of the engine, as you are standing in front of the engine. It is the one under the green plastic connector. I would replace it. In the US you can get an aftermarket one for about $30. You will need a 19MM deep socket to replace it. You can also check it out first with a digital volt/ohmeter and the specs from any manual. If you do not have a manual you can download one for free. There are Toyota factory service manuals stickied at the top of the Camry forum over at AutomotiveForums.com. Download the generation 3 manual.

Mike

icoben · 11-04-2009, 03:57 PM

replace the coolant temp. sensor definitely!
It is easy to install, no need to drain the coolant. It has two wires. the one with one wire is the coolant temp. sender which connects to the dash board gauge.

doozergreengrass · 11-04-2009, 05:51 PM

Thanks for your help guys! Yesterday at a guess i removed both those 2 sensor that were mentioned. The one under the green plastic cap was very black at the end and I wire-brushed it and it was a bright (brass?) color underneath. And the one next to it also got a clean (the one for the temp gauge as mentioned above. To the right of this there is yet another one with 2 little pipes coming out of it. what is this one for?

Thanks for your help! Am going to go take the car for a drive now and see if its behaving, although yesterday on way to and from work the gauge appeared to be sitting in a more middle position and not dropping down towards the cool level despite being a cool night. If it plays up again will def replace the sensor!

Cheers

doozergreengrass · 11-04-2009, 06:24 PM

Just another question: If the coolant temp sensor was reading incorrect, would this make the engine run cool because it was getting a rich/lean mixture? or would the engine only run cool because of the thermostat sticking open?

thanks.

doozergreengrass · 11-04-2009, 06:43 PM

HILL8570: Engine warms up pretty quickly, about what i'd expect. Radiator and overflow aren't using any coolant. And the engine is fuel injected. After I pulled the 2 gauge and fan sensors yesterday it lost a little coolant which I can see has since been pulled out of and lowered the overflow slightly. Btw, when I cleaned the gauge and fan sensors, I bought them both to a shiny/brassy color but are they supposed to be coated in some kind of black paint? or did I just remove some kind of rust inhibitor from the ends of them!!!!!

doozergreengrass · 11-05-2009, 07:21 AM

Replaced thermostat and spark plugs today, seems to be operating at half on the gauge all the time now and car behaved better, but still yet to determine if all ok. With the engine coolant sensor, should this not switch the cooling fans on straight away if it is unplugged while the engine is running? on mine when I disconnect this (the one with 2 wires) the fans do not come on. maybe this was only on earlier Toyota engines? I used to have a corolla with a 4A and as soon as the coolant temp sensor was unglugged the fans switched on.

***2wickedtoyz*** · 11-05-2009, 07:36 AM

just had a problem on a 5sfe that we bought and the problem for us was solved at night.....the sparkplug wires were bad and were arcing all over. when you looked at them the wires looked new.

doozergreengrass · 11-05-2009, 07:49 AM

thanks 2wickedtoys. so if I go have a look under the bonnet while engine is running at night, should I expect to see arcing if the leads are bad?

***2wickedtoyz*** · 11-05-2009, 08:01 AM

yes that's what we saw.

we replaced the plugs, cap, rotor button, distributor, injectors, timing belt, throttle body, checked and replaced hoses, and so on.

then the last thing was the wires but we thought "no way they look great" at night they told another story.

hill8570 · 11-05-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doozergreengrass

Thanks for your help guys! Yesterday at a guess i removed both those 2 sensor that were mentioned. The one under the green plastic cap was very black at the end and I wire-brushed it and it was a bright (brass?) color underneath. And the one next to it also got a clean (the one for the temp gauge as mentioned above. To the right of this there is yet another one with 2 little pipes coming out of it. what is this one for?
Cheers

That's the purge valve for the charcoal canister -- vents the fumes from the charcoal canister into the throttle body when the engine is warmed up.