3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
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This is my first post to this board. I've researched the code that is showing on my 1996 Camry LE 2.4. We had it dx'd by 3 different mechanics and had the shift solenoid/wiring replaced early this week (tuesday). The only symptom the car had was the check engine light coming/staying on.
After the repair, the CEL was off, for over 24 hrs. The CEL came back on Wednesday afternoon and stayed on. Took the car back to the transmission shop on Friday, everything tested fine. They cleared the code. Car was driven on/off that day, no light returned. Today (saturday) I drove the car for a couple of miles, turned car off and restarted in a few minutes, again the CEL light is on and remains on. I am to call the transmission shop on Monday for them to check out again why the CEL returns.
Any ideas on why the light returns after sitting overnight? Or why it returns after sitting for 9 hours during the day? I've searched websites for days on this. As far as I've been told, no other codes are coming up.
Thank you
I just bought this car 2 months ago (my ~dream car~) 89K's, great looking, runs excellent!! no symptoms at all. (everything checked out when we bought it)
i've read in many forums that sometimes a car must be driven and started many times because the computer must read the repairs and the CEL will then not light up. True or no? I don't want to risk any damage to my car.
Last edited by whitecamry1234; 11-07-2009 at 09:09 PM.
Reason: forgot to add something
I've moved your thread to the Gen 3 & 4 Camry forum. If you search the Gen 3 & 4 forum instead you'll find threads like this one that will address that issue. If none of the threads in the search results provide an answer then let us know.
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It's too bad that they replace the part based on the MIL and didn't fully check the solenoid. Cost you a few hundred $$$?
The problem could be in the wiring from the solenoid to the ECU, or with metal shavings sticking to the solenoid (it's magnetic coil) causing it stick.
If the problem isn't with the wiring then you can tell us the condition of the ATF. I'd be inclined to drop the pan and change out the strainer (Walmart SuperTech ATF ~$10/gal, and Fram ATF kit ~$15 work fine). Might even want to try a High Mileage ATF, because the problem could be the torque converter lock-up clutch not engaging.
You can try to pull the solenoid youself and have a mechanically inclined friend check it for you. See if it's sticking. It's near the radiator, right behind the Neutral Safety Switch. So you don't have to drop the pan.
Otherwise you may be looking at bigger transmission problems. But try the easy things first.
Do you have any exchange warranty on this used car? Are you ready for a transmission rebuild? You can't pass smog in many states with a MIL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecamry1234
Hi,
This is my first post to this board. I've researched the code that is showing on my 1996 Camry LE 2.4. We had it dx'd by 3 different mechanics and had the shift solenoid/wiring replaced early this week (tuesday). The only symptom the car had was the check engine light coming/staying on.
After the repair, the CEL was off, for over 24 hrs. The CEL came back on Wednesday afternoon and stayed on. Took the car back to the transmission shop on Friday, everything tested fine. They cleared the code. Car was driven on/off that day, no light returned. Today (saturday) I drove the car for a couple of miles, turned car off and restarted in a few minutes, again the CEL light is on and remains on. I am to call the transmission shop on Monday for them to check out again why the CEL returns.
Any ideas on why the light returns after sitting overnight? Or why it returns after sitting for 9 hours during the day? I've searched websites for days on this. As far as I've been told, no other codes are coming up.
Thank you
I just bought this car 2 months ago (my ~dream car~) 89K's, great looking, runs excellent!! no symptoms at all. (everything checked out when we bought it)
i've read in many forums that sometimes a car must be driven and started many times because the computer must read the repairs and the CEL will then not light up. True or no? I don't want to risk any damage to my car.
Thank you for your reply. I guess I had posted the repairs done on another site (I've joined several in the past week, with one reply and it was a different diagnostic code..) Here is what the repair bill states (and yes..a few hundred $$). No, the warranty on the used car has expired...
The transm. shop said that solenoid and wiring was bad, and the other solenoids were good.
They did drop the pan, and replaced the fluid with a different type (what I am not sure). They did say there was dirt in the pan and they cleaned it out as perhaps the car had been sitting for a couple of months..the car was bought off auction, one owner etc.........
My husband does not know how to work (nor does he have the equipment) on the camry. He works on his own truck (ford f-150).
That transmission shop had said at the beginning of quotes - a rebuilt transmission would be around $1,600.00 but they said I didn't need a rebuild after they looked at the car. At the beginning of all of this I did call 2 toyota dealerships with rebuilt transmission quotes of 4,500 to 5,400.
I'll print out what you have said to check and I guess have that transmission shop look at it again and do what you suggested, the ecm wiring and such, it is a 90 day warranty there.
What is the "normal" price for a rebuilt transmission (not dealership please)
The car passed emissions this past August and is registered until December oof 2010.
Was told the transmission fluid that was in there looked good......
Again, Thank You
I just asked husband the color of the transmission fluid when he checked it before taking it to the transmission shop..the color was reddish.
Took the car to auto-zone this morning and had them do the scan, still pulling only the PO773 code.
Last edited by whitecamry1234; 11-08-2009 at 04:06 PM.
Reason: took it to auto-zone
If it's only throwing a code, you might just drive it until you actually get a symptom.
If the solenoid truly tested bad, that's one thing, but if it's throwing a code and they think the solenoid is bad, then they were mistaken... this is what happened to me at the lame-o dealer as described in my thread... 1994 Camry V6 Auto Transmission Problems
Avoid the dealer like the plague, but try finding a good independent transmission shop.
That's too bad. The SL Solenoid is on the outside of the transmission. But Solenoid #2 has nothing to do with SL solenoid. I'm very disappointed with the service you received. If they're replacing parts using MIL code, at least they should replace the right one.
I wonder how can #2 solenoid be bad if you don't have shift problems? I sure hope your shop isn't an ATRA member. That would really ruin my week. I'd recommend using the Shop Finder tab to find an Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association shop in your local area:
According to it, you're probably going to be looking at part number 67420CK (double check it). But pull the part to inspect first. It may be just metal shavings causing it to stick.
You should have the shop test the SL solenoid. Not #1 or #2 solenoid based on the code, P0773. If your hubby can work on F-150 he can work on a Camry. These things use older tech and are fairly simple really. You can get the parts at: http://www.transtar1.com/locations.asp
The transm. shop said that solenoid and wiring was bad, and the other solenoids were good.
They did drop the pan, and replaced the fluid with a different type (what I am not sure). They did say there was dirt in the pan and they cleaned it out as perhaps the car had been sitting for a couple of months..the car was bought off auction, one owner etc.........
My husband does not know how to work (nor does he have the equipment) on the camry. He works on his own truck (ford f-150).
That transmission shop had said at the beginning of quotes - a rebuilt transmission would be around $1,600.00 but they said I didn't need a rebuild after they looked at the car. At the beginning of all of this I did call 2 toyota dealerships with rebuilt transmission quotes of 4,500 to 5,400.
I'll print out what you have said to check and I guess have that transmission shop look at it again and do what you suggested, the ecm wiring and such, it is a 90 day warranty there.
What is the "normal" price for a rebuilt transmission (not dealership please)
The car passed emissions this past August and is registered until December oof 2010.
Was told the transmission fluid that was in there looked good......
Again, Thank You
I just asked husband the color of the transmission fluid when he checked it before taking it to the transmission shop..the color was reddish.
Took the car to auto-zone this morning and had them do the scan, still pulling only the PO773 code.
These Aisin transmissions do not have a real filtration system. They're always dirty and will have metal sludge on the magnets and the bottom of the pan. It's a good ideal to drop the pan and clean periodically.
A rebuild kit containing new friction material (like the brake pads), and steel plates and gaskets costs about $200. A rebuilt torque converter another $150 or so. The rest is labor. Dealer buys rebuilt transmissions and only installs them. You can from Jasper Engines or Marshall as well (3-year/100K mile warranty). Just be careful, most shops don't rebuild, they just slap a salvaged transmission on there for you. Done in a day. Costs about $1000 with 3-4 months of parts-only warranty because that's what the junkyard gives.
I wouldn't go that far yet. Try the simple things first -- inspect the correct SL solenoid.
Again, replacing the #2 solenoid isn't going to solve the SL solenoid code (P0773). Replacing the SL solenoid might not solve it either if it's the torque converter lock-up clutch. So inspect the solenoid first, it may still be good.
Thank you for all of your help. I printed out all of your posts to give to the transmission shop (I have another appointment this Wednesday..as what they did is still under warranty..and no charge for further investigation) The shop I took it to is not an ATRA member. There is an ATRA member shop less than a mile from where i live (I checked the Shop Finder here, as you suggested).
I spoke with the place I am going back to this afternoon and said I'd been receiving advice from people who are high caliber in knowledge (you guys) and asked some questions. I'd not yet seen the last few posts when I spoke with him. He said, basically they would be starting to diagnosis from the beginning. Whatever solenoid they did replace was from Toyota (he said). He does not think its the torque convert. as the car (per him) runs/shifts beautifully etc etc.
I ended the conversation with...all I know is the car is still throwing the same code and you changed a solenoid and it is still the same code..either the solenoid you replaced is bad or its not the right part to fix the car...and you were to fix the car. He agreed.
Now, my question is depending on what they find/say. Should I just eat the $$$ already spent and go to the member transmission place and have them do the repairs? Get another opinion so to speak?
Also, ToyotaJim I did read/follow the thread you posted last night and found it very interesting. I've been reading quite a bit here and enjoy the reads.
I'll be glad when this problem is resolved so I can actually enjoy more of the posts/pictures of the vehicles here. Maybe post a picture of my car.
Thank you again
I think this site is fantastic!!!!
Last edited by whitecamry1234; 11-09-2009 at 07:25 PM.
Reason: correcting a typo
Well, let me just say that there are shops trying to make a living doing the best they can. On the other hand, you're spending your hard earned money trying to get a smooth running car. I ranted enough now I think I'll just keep shut.
I'll try to describe what I understand of P0773 so hopefully you and the shop that's already got the money can both resolve this issue properly.
When you're at steady highway cruising speeds, there is no reason why there should be a difference in rotation speeds on both sides of the torque converter. (Especially, as stated in the wiki article, the stator has reached 90% of the pump speed.) Any difference at this stage causes unwanted friction, or "slippage", that reduces efficiency and generates heat, unnecessarily. You lose fuel economy and cause unwanted wear and tear on the transmission that way.
Typically at this stage a modern day torque converter lock-up clutch is applied. And power is transferred directly from the engine's output shaft into the transmission's input shaft. And you may notice a couple hundred RPM drop and the result is better fuel economy and less heat/shearing of the ATF.
What causes the lock-up clutch to be applied? The SL solenoid on the outside of the transmission. It sends ATF pressure to the apply clutch in the torque converter and locks up the clutch.
Without this, to the untrained eye, the transmission will otherwise seem to operate fine. Except that it's running a couple hundred RPMs higher and heat is being generated where you cannot see, and the ATF's life is being reduced by the heat and friction.
So the effects of an inoperative lock-up clutch are going to be long term. Your car will still drive, smoothly, but probably at a lower fuel efficiency. Especially if you often drive in the lock-up speed range. At the same time the transmission is receiving more stress from it, and will probably live accordingly.
Now, is the SL solenoid the only cause for this problem? No. suppose your lock-up clutch is already worn out by poor maintenance or other problems in the transmission. Then the SL solenoid may be sending the properly pressure signal, but the lock-up clutch doesn't lock. What now? You'll be looking at least at a rebuilt torque converter with new friction material (like getting new brake pads for the clutch).
Will these two solve the problem? They may not if the problem is with low line pressure in the valve body. And what can cause that?
As you can see this can go on and on. So at this time let's see what the shop will tell you regarding the SL solenoid and the torque converter.
As far as the cost and moving to another shop. Anyone wants to chime in?
(Thank you. Yes, we TN are the best! )
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecamry1234
Now, my question is depending on what they find/say. Should I just eat the $$$ already spent and go to the member transmission place and have them do the repairs? Get another opinion so to speak?
Also, ToyotaJim I did read/follow the thread you posted last night and found it very interesting. I've been reading quite a bit here and enjoy the reads.
I'll be glad when this problem is resolved so I can actually enjoy more of the posts/pictures of the vehicles here. Maybe post a picture of my car.
I really don't think dealers have a clue how the internals of a transmission works based on their repair pattern: pull transmission, swap in rebuilt, charge customer.
Whitecamry1234's case could have been a bad torque converter among the things. Only proper diagnosis will tell. But if the dealer sold the shop the wrong "SL solenoid" for the problem that won't help either.
And certainly in your case the SL solenoid won't help if the problem is in the lock-up clutch or low line pressure resulting in clutch packs wearing out early. But keep us posted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyotaJimD.
If it's only throwing a code, you might just drive it until you actually get a symptom.
Avoid the dealer like the plague, but try finding a good independent transmission shop.
I typed a post and hit send and it disappeared. Will give it another try..first of all i'll apologize for the whine I'm sure my post will sound like as I've been in 2 transmissions places this morning for around 5-6 hours.......and have that "doe in the headlight look" right now.
I took the car to the transmission place again, showed them what I'd printed out from here. He read it. They put the car on the diagnostic machine again, drove it and said they noticed "something different when driving"..so they adjusted something ...lines (?) in regards to the torque conve. area., but the torque conv. is fine, they said. They said the replaced solenoid was bad. I am to drive it and if light comes back on again, then I will need a rebuild transmission as perhaps at sometime damage had been done to the transmission because of the torque area and they don't know where else to look. I would get credit toward the rebuilt because they'd replaced the solenoid and that was one less area I'd have to replace........................................I drove it home.
I called the transmission shop that is on the shop list here near me and they said yes there is a solenoid outside the transmission and they feel the problem is electrical per the repair bill and symptoms (or lack thereof) I read to them. The car is at the 2nd place now and should have the diagnosis late this afternoon. The 2nd place also said the "d" light didn't light up when they drove it into the bay...I said those lights have ALWAYS worked..I notice those every morning....he said maybe the light bulb just burned out or its an area they will find...m something or other......all i know is that those lights lit up this morning when i drove to 1st shop.
Previous to going to the 2nd shop I also called an aamco (however those initials go) and they said all solenoids in that car are in the inside of the transmission and via phone they think its the ecm unit ..and that would be 4-500 for the part with a "free install"........and I said.....well.....what if its the transmission.area.you will check that area right? and he said.......yeah..but it sounds like the ecm....i said thank you.
Guess I'll know more later today.....
update -
call from new transmission place - they say they can find nothing - no codes in history either. techs said car ran flawlessly. i asked them to keep it overnight to see if it would replicate for them as it has in the past 2 wks for me. also asked them to fix that "d" light (as they feel that is a burnt out bulb), one less light for me to have to watch eh?
Last edited by whitecamry1234; 11-11-2009 at 05:46 PM.
Reason: forgot to include a few words
The shift indicator light bulb does burn out. So that's no biggy. Easy to replace if you know how. If the bulb is good then I'm sure they might alsol check shift linkage, throttle linkage, neutral safety switch and what not.
Well, I guess you're not going to whatever that chain store is . People who know usually don't.
And if whatever was done fixed it then you should be fine. While going into 4th gear with steady speed, look for a drop in RPMs (200-300 RPMs) when the transmission torque converter clutch locks up. And if lightly tapped on the gas after that there should be a slight delay before RPM increases. The ATRA shop can probably explain that better and if they'd done that check for you.
I think it'll take 2 unsuccessful lock-up trips before the P0773 is set again?
But I hope everything is worked out now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecamry1234
Previous to going to the 2nd shop I also called an XXXXX (however those initials go) and they said all solenoids in that car are in the inside of the transmission and via phone they think its the ecm unit ..and that would be 4-500 for the part with a "free install"........and I said.....well.....what if its the transmission.area.you will check that area right? and he said.......yeah..but it sounds like the ecm....i said thank you.
update -
call from new transmission place - they say they can find nothing - no codes in history either. techs said car ran flawlessly. i asked them to keep it overnight to see if it would replicate for them as it has in the past 2 wks for me. also asked them to fix that "d" light (as they feel that is a burnt out bulb), one less light for me to have to watch eh?
The place where the car is at now kept the car overnight (in fact was told the owner drove it home last night.....today asked us if we wanted to sell it to him.....ummmm i declined........) He is the tech working on it (place has been in business for 30 years..so I feel a bit better......).
He said they have checked everything many times back and forth and feels the problem is the ecm. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the mechanical aspects of the car and that it is an electrical issue (ecm). He says he wants to purchase an ecm from a "junk~yard" and see if this corrects the problem. He says there is nothing wrong with the transmission area, nor anywhere else. He's checked all the wiring etc etc etc ....all over the car.....
I said why do i have to get a junk~yard ecm? He said the dealerships cost was close to 800.00.(and a special back order..)..and they use j. yard ones all the time......me..being me..called autozone (just because I wanted to know the actual cost from there....why I don't know but I wanted to know that.........autozone was 500.00). Autozone did explain why it could be the ecm and I said what if its not the ecm and he said..."then you own 2 ecms".............he said we don't mind if you come back everyday and have us scan the car, we like you...I said yeah, well thanks ..but autozone isn't my kind of a every other day shopping spree.........
The junk~yard price is 250.00 (well..I guess with the shops markup it is 250.00). So I said ok and it comes with some sort of a warranty. He said if the j.yard one doesn't work..he'll just have them keep sending one that will work......
He said he'd wished I'd taken the car to him first and said "perhaps what the first place did..really did need to be done..but no sense to do the "woulda, coulda, shoulda.......")BUT he said the 1st shop did not check further into diagnostics..they should have gone further and further..........and either didn't know or didn't bother.
The car is to be ready tomorrow afternoon (back log of cars and some techs are out sick).......so we shall see what we shall see..........saturday morning when i make that "lets see if the light stays off this time".....
Anyway, tho frustrating as hell with this I am at least "happy" both places said the car runs/drives "beautifully etc etc etc".......and we didn't get taken by the seller...........
wanted to say thank you again, for your help and listening to me RAMBLE..........
Last edited by whitecamry1234; 11-12-2009 at 06:56 PM.
Reason: wanted to say
Let's see if the Check Engine light stays off first. It's great if there is nothing mechanically wrong, right?
I think Autozone is great being cautious at this point. (Good job!) Why don't you just drive the car for a couple of weeks see how things behave. Autozone can always read out the codes for you so we can work on that again (I think that's what they meant? )
So both you and your husband should drive it. Pay attention to the torque converter clutch lock-up (the RPM drop I mentioned) on a safe section of the road. Just see how things go from here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecamry1234
He said they have checked everything many times back and forth and feels the problem is the ecm. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the mechanical aspects of the car and that it is an electrical issue (ecm).
Autozone did explain why it could be the ecm and I said what if its not the ecm and he said..."then you own 2 ecms".............he said we don't mind if you come back everyday and have us scan the car, we like you...I said yeah, well thanks ..but autozone isn't my kind of a every other day shopping spree.........
The car is to be ready tomorrow afternoon (back log of cars and some techs are out sick).......so we shall see what we shall see..........saturday morning when i make that "lets see if the light stays off this time".....
that this morning when the owner of the 2nd shop drove the car back to his shop....the check engine light was ON again.it happened after he started the car....................and stayed ON..i can't believe i forgot to say that part!!
because of the light being on again....they started checking and rechecking again and again and it all (they say) is leading them to the ecm. they said they drove it ..slow, medium..fast, yesterday afternoon, last night and today...... ....checking the transmission performance etc and felt nothing strange....it all performed as it should..
thank you again and i'll let you know the "verdict" tomorrow after I pick up the car.......and believe me....i'll let ya know if that light comes ON...again.. or if it stays off......
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