3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
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Am I forgetting anything?!?! Front Suspension work...
First off the car is a '95 Camry V6 LE. Well, about 37,000 miles ago, I replaced my struts all around because the rears gave out. 1,500 miles my rears decided to go out again. At the time I decided to replace the rears only. I am thinking the fronts might give out this winter based on the rears giving out. Either way, I made a list of what I would want to change when next spring comes around and I would like to see if anyone thinks I should add anything to it since the car will be under the knife:
-Front Struts: 37,000 miles old, to be replaced with Monroe Sensa Trac's, currently in place: Gabriel Ultra's. No obvious signs of wear, no noise SO FAR.
-Lower Ball Joints: Factory originals, 216,000 miles, no noise whatsoever but I suspect their time is up based on age plain and simple. To be replace with MOOG ball joints
-Control Arm Bushings: Factory Originals, 216,000 miles, developping signs of wear, to be replaced with duralasts.
-*MAYBE* Strut mounts?? Dunno, no noise, they seem fine...
Front Sway bar bushings were already replaced with the rear struts 1,500 miles ago. Am I forgetting anything (excluding the blattantly obvious like alignment)?!?!
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1995 Toyota Camry V6 LE-6M1 250K Miles, Fun Car
1997 Acura RL-Gone
2007 Acura RL SH-AWD, Technology Package, Opulent Blue Pearl- Fun Car/Daily Driver
I'd interested in what the difference in ride between the SensaTrac and the Ultra. I heard Monroe's quality control is not that great. Doesn't your Ultras come with lifetime warranty?
I'd consider replacing the mount and maybe repack the bearing after cleaning with alcohol, if you don't plan to replace it. The upper mount and bearing are load carrying parts in a MacPherson system.
I'd interested in what the difference in ride between the SensaTrac and the Ultra. I heard Monroe's quality control is not that great. Doesn't your Ultras come with lifetime warranty?
I'd consider replacing the mount and maybe repack the bearing after cleaning with alcohol, if you don't plan to replace it. The upper mount and bearing are load carrying parts in a MacPherson system.
I dunno about the quality control, I guess only time will tell that... The sensa tracs feel a tad bit softer than the Ultra's but the overall difference is pretty much negligible. The price difference was also negligible, I believe it was a matter of 2.50$/strut more for the monroe's
As for the lifetime warranty, you are correct about that. Upon more research, they call it "limited" lifetime warranty. I went back to Autozone, same store I bought them from and I was essentially chasing a ghost. They claimed the lifetime was 50,000 miles (which I suspect is untrue), the car hadn't passed that mark, but thinking I was an idiot, they tried to tell me that the warranty was 50,000 km ( my car/I are canadian, upon seeing the dash, I'm guessing he was trying to take me for an idiot) without realizing the obvious conversion factor
Even when I did get it thru the manager's head that the car hadn't done 50,000 miles yet based on the km to miles conversion, he claimed it was my fault, that I had hit a pothole and caused them to prematurely fail so it wasn't covered. I told him, no bent rim, no out of balance/true rim, I even showed him the alignment specs from before the old struts were taken out (requsted for that very purpose from the shop that did the repair and alignment). Nothing out of whack. Bunch of BS if you ask me. 1 hour later, I walked out pissed off with nothing in hand.
Thanks! So essentially, if the mount is not making any noise, I can just clean the bearing and call it a day? Are endlinks absolutely neccesary?
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1995 Toyota Camry V6 LE-6M1 250K Miles, Fun Car
1997 Acura RL-Gone
2007 Acura RL SH-AWD, Technology Package, Opulent Blue Pearl- Fun Car/Daily Driver
Sorry to hear about the Autozone runaround. I spec'ed Ultras on different daily-driver cars (those not using Boge or Bilsteins already ) because I think it's a better design than the "grooved piston rod" design of the SensaTrac. And partly because of the Limited Lifetime Warranty. On Autozone's site, it's as long as you own your car.
"If a part fails during the warranty period shown on your receipt, bring the part to any AutoZone store and you will receive a replacement or refund. Warranty excludes damage caused by misuse, abuse, other faulty parts, improper installation or off-road, commercial or marine use."
I was reading a TN member having no problems returning sturts to Autozone. I'll try to dig the post up. I wonder if you should check with a different store. Maybe call one if it's a bit far. Otherwise that would be a big bummer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by projektvertx
I dunno about the quality control, I guess only time will tell that... The sensa tracs feel a tad bit softer than the Ultra's but the overall difference is pretty much negligible. The price difference was also negligible, I believe it was a matter of 2.50$/strut more for the monroe's
As for the lifetime warranty, you are correct about that. Upon more research, they call it "limited" lifetime warranty. I went back to Autozone, same store I bought them from and I was essentially chasing a ghost. They claimed the lifetime was 50,000 miles (which I suspect is untrue), the car hadn't passed that mark, but thinking I was an idiot, they tried to tell me that the warranty was 50,000 km ( my car/I are canadian, upon seeing the dash, I'm guessing he was trying to take me for an idiot) without realizing the obvious conversion factor
If the mount isn't noisy you can probably just leave them there. I used Redline CV-2 grease in repacking the strut bearings. You can use a multi-purpose grease that's also suitable for CV joints (it's better than straight multi-purpose wheel bearing grease), such as the Valvoline Durablend ~$5 IIRC my last tube for greasable Moog ball joints (not too convenient compared to Raybestos grease-free joints, I must say, but should last longer). Just make sure the seal lips are correctly placed when slapping the halves together. You'll need a small flat screwdriver to move one upper portion of the seal lip above the top case.
As far as swaybar links, I'd just inspec them first. They should turn faily easily without play. They're easy to do. So no immediate need to do them. If you do, change out the two rubber swaybar bushings too while at it. Make sure both wheels are lifted off the ground, or the swaybar will be tension loaded! Not too healthy.
While at it grab and steering tie rods and try to move them in/out/left/right/up/down and there should be no play.
Grab the wheel and move it at 6-12 o'clock and 3-9 o'clock positions. There should be no slack.
You should also inspect the lower ball joints too. With the car half-raised, use a prybar and block of wood to protect the rim, see if there is movement in the joint. There should be none.
Quote:
Originally Posted by projektvertx
Thanks! So essentially, if the mount is not making any noise, I can just clean the bearing and call it a day? Are endlinks absolutely neccesary?
If the mount isn't noisy you can probably just leave them there. I used Redline CV-2 grease in repacking the strut bearings. You can use a multi-purpose grease that's also suitable for CV joints (it's better than straight multi-purpose wheel bearing grease), such as the Valvoline Durablend ~$5 IIRC my last tube for greasable Moog ball joints (not too convenient compared to Raybestos grease-free joints, I must say, but should last longer). Just make sure the seal lips are correctly placed when slapping the halves together. You'll need a small flat screwdriver to move one upper portion of the seal lip above the top case.
As far as swaybar links, I'd just inspec them first. They should turn faily easily without play. They're easy to do. So no immediate need to do them. If you do, change out the two rubber swaybar bushings too while at it. Make sure both wheels are lifted off the ground, or the swaybar will be tension loaded! Not too healthy.
While at it grab and steering tie rods and try to move them in/out/left/right/up/down and there should be no play.
Grab the wheel and move it at 6-12 o'clock and 3-9 o'clock positions. There should be no slack.
You should also inspect the lower ball joints too. With the car half-raised, use a prybar and block of wood to protect the rim, see if there is movement in the joint. There should be none.
Sounds good! I think you pretty much covered everything. Now all that's left is getting to it! Do my brand choices sound good? I don't want to do a half assed job and pay for it in a couple of months...
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1995 Toyota Camry V6 LE-6M1 250K Miles, Fun Car
1997 Acura RL-Gone
2007 Acura RL SH-AWD, Technology Package, Opulent Blue Pearl- Fun Car/Daily Driver
Moog is fine. However, you need to grease it before you first install it, and preferably add a bit of grease at every oil change (or two depending on your OCI).
Of course, check CV boots, lower control arm bushings, loose bolts, leaks, etc etc.
You should be able to borrow the necessary specialty tools (that you don't already have) using Autozone's free loaner program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by projektvertx
Sounds good! I think you pretty much covered everything. Now all that's left is getting to it! Do my brand choices sound good? I don't want to do a half assed job and pay for it in a couple of months...
Moog is fine. However, you need to grease it before you first install it, and preferably add a bit of grease at every oil change (or two depending on your OCI).
Of course, check CV boots, lower control arm bushings, loose bolts, leaks, etc etc.
You should be able to borrow the necessary specialty tools (that you don't already have) using Autozone's free loaner program.
I thought the ball joint was a somewhat sealed assemble Maybe I have the design idea wrong in my head... Would another brand be just as good and not require greasing or not require greasing as often?
__________________
1995 Toyota Camry V6 LE-6M1 250K Miles, Fun Car
1997 Acura RL-Gone
2007 Acura RL SH-AWD, Technology Package, Opulent Blue Pearl- Fun Car/Daily Driver
Many manufacturers go with sealed joints these days. It's easier to maintain, and basically lasts the 100K miles they expect most primary owners not to exceed.
The 100+ year-old name, Raybestos, is now used to brand all previously "Spicer" joints made by Dana Chassis (it's now sold off to Affinia). Dana is a Tier-1 parts supplier. Of course, you can always get Toyota joints, but I don't know which company makes them.
What you do with Moog is you grease it after installing the zerk fitting with a high quality multi-purpose grease, preferably one also suitable for CV joints. Like the DuraBlend I mentioned or Redline CV-2 Synthetic I like to use. Frankly, it's just inconvenient. I kinda prefer to swap one out every 100K than to grease one every 3-6K, unless you do off-roading or other heavy duty driving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by projektvertx
I thought the ball joint was a somewhat sealed assemble Maybe I have the design idea wrong in my head... Would another brand be just as good and not require greasing or not require greasing as often?
Many manufacturers go with sealed joints these days. It's easier to maintain, and basically lasts the 100K miles they expect most primary owners not to exceed.
The 100+ year-old name, Raybestos, is now used to brand all previously "Spicer" joints made by Dana Chassis (it's now sold off to Affinia). Dana is a Tier-1 parts supplier. Of course, you can always get Toyota joints, but I don't know which company makes them.
What you do with Moog is you grease it after installing the zerk fitting with a high quality multi-purpose grease, preferably one also suitable for CV joints. Like the DuraBlend I mentioned or Redline CV-2 Synthetic I like to use. Frankly, it's just inconvenient. I kinda prefer to swap one out every 100K than to grease one every 3-6K, unless you do off-roading or other heavy duty driving.
Interesting.... Thanks for the info, came in handy! The car is my daily driver, and I'm not into "spirited" driving despite the 6 cyl. I decided to give a call to my local Toyota and Autozone to see what the price difference was for MOOG vs. OEM Toyota vs. Comparable brand and the prices are as follows:
MOOG from Autozone, would require regular greasing as per your recommendation: 53.99$
Raybestos Professional Grade, Sealed, Rockauto: 32.79$ + shipping
OEM Toyota sealed assembly: 75$ a pair
I think I'll go with the OEM's for that portion since the price is not terrifying, and the OEM's currently in place have gone for so long. BTW, I did do the test you wrote about. At the 3 and 9 oclock, no slack or noise. At 12 and 6 however, there was some noise,but no play. It was a mild creaking not cracking noise. So I'm guessing their time is up pretty soon?
I purchased the struts today from a different Autozone. I did talk to the manager about the issue with the rears and he gave me an exchange for a new monroe front. Since I already purchase rears, he agreed to substitute me a front one for the defective rear one. I just had to pay the difference between the monroe fronts and gabriel rears. I found him to be very resonable compared to the other guy!
I appreciate the advice JohnGD!
__________________
1995 Toyota Camry V6 LE-6M1 250K Miles, Fun Car
1997 Acura RL-Gone
2007 Acura RL SH-AWD, Technology Package, Opulent Blue Pearl- Fun Car/Daily Driver
How are the tie rods? quiet? Also check lower ball joint and control arm bushings.
Yeah, I think Autozones, like many chain stores, are operated independently. But I'm glad they honor the warranty like they're supposed to. Glad to help!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by projektvertx
BTW, I did do the test you wrote about. At the 3 and 9 oclock, no slack or noise. At 12 and 6 however, there was some noise,but no play. It was a mild creaking not cracking noise. So I'm guessing their time is up pretty soon?
I purchased the struts today from a different Autozone. I did talk to the manager about the issue with the rears and he gave me an exchange for a new monroe front. Since I already purchase rears, he agreed to substitute me a front one for the defective rear one. I just had to pay the difference between the monroe fronts and gabriel rears. I found him to be very resonable compared to the other guy!
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) because I think it's a better design than the "grooved piston rod" design of the SensaTrac. And partly because of the Limited Lifetime Warranty. On Autozone's site, it's as long as you own your car. 
Maybe I have the design idea wrong in my head... Would another brand be just as good and not require greasing or not require greasing as often?
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