1995 Camry Issue not helped by tech manual - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Never95 · 12-29-2009, 08:22 AM

1995 Toyota Camry.
Runs like it has a misfire when warm. Idle bounces a bit, sometimes surges. Throwing code 25 26 Rich Lean mixture. Car is running extremely rich, to the point of the oil smelling only like gasoline. Seems to be losing a small amount of coolant ½ reservoir per 6K miles. A couple days ago the car became almost non drivable, seems to be stuck at 2k rpm.
I have gone through the recommended procedures in the tech manual and the problem persists.
Welcome to any and all advice.

Replaced:
Both O2 sensors
Coolant Temp sensor
Timing Belt & water pump (belt snapped)
Spark plugs and wires (Cap and rotor are new)
Ignition coil
Fuel filter
TPS
IAC

Checked:
O2 sensors are within spec.
Fuel pressure within spec.
Spark test: OK
Injector resistances within spec.
Timing is correct.
MAP sensor (junk swap with 2 others, no effect, assumed working).

I might have missed a few things as I have checked so much on this car already.

***Eye8Pussies*** · 12-29-2009, 11:18 AM

Sounds like a big vacuum leak- check for a leak using throttle body cleaner. Spray it everywhere in the engine bay with specific attention to vacuum hoses and gasket areas post-maf/map sensor.

If you hear the engine rpms rise, continue spraying in the same area until you find the leak. If you can't find it yourself, take it to a mechanic with a smoke machine and pay him an hour's worth of labor to find the leak, and then fix it yourself.

Since you have done so much trouble shooting already, it is highly likely that it is a vacuum leak.

Never95 · 12-29-2009, 11:54 AM

I have tried spraying down the engine bay with cleaner but witnessed no change. I have taken off and checked a large number of the hoses to check for leaks as well.

Do you think that a vacuum leak would only be present once the car has warmed up?

I am considering a mechanic as a last resort but I think it is coming to that.

***Eye8Pussies*** · 12-29-2009, 12:46 PM

if you're asking about low vs high idle, then definitely- during high idle, you usually won't notice much, if any change even if the cleaner does it job and combusts

if you're asking about "warmed up" in the sense of expansion of parts and gaskets, then yes as well

if this isn't due to a vacuum leak, I would be probably take it to a mechanic as well since you've done pretty much all the problem shooting that can really be done by a shade tree mechanic

it also sounds like the timing is off, but you've checked that as well

Stillrunning · 12-29-2009, 03:05 PM

Have you been able to determine if it is running rich only in one cylinder?

hill8570 · 12-29-2009, 07:59 PM

Rigs with MAP sensors tend to be pretty tolerant of vacuum leaks, so I'm having trouble buying that as the issue.

Which temp sensor did you replace -- the one on the radiator, or the one up on the engine?

Have you tried a compression test with the engine warm? Symptoms are not really classic BHG or valve issue, but you're running out of parts to shotgun, and a 1/2 res of coolant per 6K miles is worrisome.

speedy25 · 12-29-2009, 08:26 PM

I think you need to check mechanical integrity of your engine before continuing. If you are not finding coolant puddles under the car your coolant consumption may be head gasket related and could be a cause for the engine running so crappy. A good shop can test for combustion gases in the coolant to eliminate or justify that problem.

Part 2 is to do a leakdown test to make sure that internal parts are up to snuff.

-SP

Stillrunning · 12-30-2009, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill8570

...but you're running out of parts to shotgun, and a 1/2 res of coolant per 6K miles is worrisome.

I'm wondering if it is a small HG leak that allows A/F into a cylinder which does not allow fuel to be totally burned, if that could show up as rich running?? I also think a hot engine compression test would be a good idea.

***Eye8Pussies*** · 12-30-2009, 11:44 AM

^ yes, that would definitely give a rich code due to the lack of combustion (due to water/coolant in the chamber)

But the only thing that confused me is the lean code. Not too many situations will make an ecu throw both a lean and a rich code except for bad o2 sensors, bad maf/map or vacuum leaks- which is also usually a random misfire ad well.

But then again, my experience with obd1 map cars are limited and they may diagnose diferently than obdII maf cars

Stillrunning · 12-30-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Car is running extremely rich, to the point of the oil smelling only like gasoline.

To me this also points to open injector.

Never95 · 12-31-2009, 07:01 AM

Thank you everyone for the input. The injector resistances are within spec and they are all clicking. Could still be an issue there cetainly but to have the car run totally flat doesnt seem like a single injector issue. It would cause overly rich though.

HG leak is certainly possible. I am having a mobile mechanic come do some diagnostics on it.

I will let you know what is discovered.

Never95 · 01-01-2010, 01:04 PM

Unbelievable.

The wire was arcing across and ate through the boot. I thought it was simply a dry spot on the boot. Passed spark test because there was no metal for it to arc across to.

This caused a misfire and lead to code 25 26. Replaced the wire and the car runs perfectly. If anyone in Raleigh NC needs a mechanic let me know, this guy was great.

Stillrunning · 01-01-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Runs like it has a misfire when warm.

I guess it was a misfire. Always look for the simple stuff. I'd do an oil/filter change as your oil will be contaminated with gasoline.

johnfrisco · 01-01-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Never95

Unbelievable.

The wire was arcing across and ate through the boot. I thought it was simply a dry spot on the boot. Passed spark test because there was no metal for it to arc across to.

This caused a misfire and lead to code 25 26. Replaced the wire and the car runs perfectly. If anyone in Raleigh NC needs a mechanic let me know, this guy was great.

Congrats! After market spark plug wires stink. I had one pair on my Honda go after 6 months and got a misfire. How much did this mechanic charge you?

Never95 · 01-01-2010, 02:25 PM

The mechanic was awesome to say the least. He originally quoted me $48 to come and do a dx on it. All he asked for was to pay for the gas to come out as it only took him 15 minutes or so to diagnose it. We settled on $20 for it. Considering a dealer would charge me $100 I couldnt be happier. He was a great guy and I plan on using him whenever I or someone else need auto work in the future.