3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
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Iv used Felpro on another vehicle I had in the past and was impressed with the quality and that it just had a nice heavy solid but flexible feeling to it.
I was planning on just buying a OEM gasket but when I found out it was that cheap, even that much cheaper than the aftermarket I thought I should ask if anyone else has any insights.
the oem gasket is of very good flexible, yes solid construction.
I wouldn't see why the felpro one is that expensive, and nor do I see how they could have really improved on the quality or design of the oem one either
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Does the Felpro gasket come with the spark plug seals? The spark plug seals for OEM are seperate from the main gasket -- that could account for a good chunk of the price difference.
Fel Pro had a valve cover kit online (rockauto) used to include the spark plug tube seals but no longer. If OEM is cheaper than go with OEM. Fel-Pro often reboxes OEM gaskets unless they made improvements on them, but that's often on domestic engines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by #2!
OEM gasket looks to be around $13 and Felpro $23.
Iv used Felpro on another vehicle I had in the past and was impressed with the quality and that it just had a nice heavy solid but flexible feeling to it.
I was planning on just buying a OEM gasket but when I found out it was that cheap, even that much cheaper than the aftermarket I thought I should ask if anyone else has any insights.
I wouldn't be as concerned about the gaskets as I would the real cause of all of the valve cover leaks in the V6 Camrys. I recently went through the ordeal and came away shaking my head of the lousy design that Toyota did on the V6 engines. First off the engine tilts at maybe 30 degrees making a permanent pool of oil at the back valve cover. They could have made the galley deep enough to accomodate the permanent pool of oil, but they didn't.
To make up for this they over designed the simple bolt that holds the valve cover in place. If they just use a regular bolt, the valve covers probably would never leak, but nooooooo, they had to design the most complicated bolt I have ever seen. In addition, they have machined it carefully to bottom out in the head, and once it does, that's it for tightening it up. So the valve cover gaskets shrink over time, there is a constant pool of oil in the rear valve cover due to the tilt of the engine, and you are guaranteed a leak. And every V6 leaks if it's got over say 100K miles on it.
The solution is simple. Add two washers, this will decrease the distance on the bolt body and allow you to torque the bolt to the proper specs without it bottoming out. (5-6 ft/lbs if I remember right) And you can re-torque them over time as the gasket shrinks to keep them from leaking.
This is a simple fix, and Toyota should have addressed this problem, but they never did. There's some other posts on this problem posted here on TN so check them out.
And people thought the I4 valve cover gasket leaked like a sieve because the tube seals took a set. The V6 design sure isn't much better.
I think Toyota wised up and paid Honda for their valve cover design in the 2.4L. So now the engine oil doesn't leak but head bolts come loose. Go figure.
You know, the Honda design has a stop on each bolt like that. But instead of using that funky washer design you pictured Honda used a rubberized washer outside of valve covers. They easily sealed without problem.
I wonder if that pooled oil is the first to turn to sludge as Toyota cranked up the head temperature for LEV status in 1997. People said this type of sludge began in the cylinder head because of the heat, instead of in the oil pan as in traditional sludge (from lack of oil changes).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajkalian
I wouldn't be as concerned about the gaskets as I would the real cause of all of the valve cover leaks in the V6 Camrys. I recently went through the ordeal and came away shaking my head of the lousy design that Toyota did on the V6 engines. First off the engine tilts at maybe 30 degrees making a permanent pool of oil at the back valve cover. They could have made the galley deep enough to accomodate the permanent pool of oil, but they didn't.
To make up for this they over designed the simple bolt that holds the valve cover in place. If they just use a regular bolt, the valve covers probably would never leak, but nooooooo, they had to design the most complicated bolt I have ever seen. In addition, they have machined it carefully to bottom out in the head, and once it does, that's it for tightening it up. So the valve cover gaskets shrink over time, there is a constant pool of oil in the rear valve cover due to the tilt of the engine, and you are guaranteed a leak. And every V6 leaks if it's got over say 100K miles on it.
The solution is simple. Add two washers, this will decrease the distance on the bolt body and allow you to torque the bolt to the proper specs without it bottoming out. (5-6 ft/lbs if I remember right) And you can re-torque them over time as the gasket shrinks to keep them from leaking.
This is a simple fix, and Toyota should have addressed this problem, but they never did. There's some other posts on this problem posted here on TN so check them out.
Does the Felpro gasket come with the spark plug seals? The spark plug seals for OEM are seperate from the main gasket -- that could account for a good chunk of the price difference.
Ya your right I just checked and what I was looking at in Checker is a kit that has the spark plug seals. By the time I get 4 of those and pay for shipping the Felpro will be cheaper.
Anyone know what the torque specs are for a 96 5S-FE? Iv herd 17lbs in the 94 manual and also 33lbs from somewhere else on this forum.
I just realized that my previous post was for not only the wrong engine (6cyl vs 4cyl) it was for the wrong year (2000 vs 1996). Sorry for that incorrect post, but every time I read anything about Camry Valve Covers I just go crazy.....I'm feeling much better now.
I realized that but it was actually helpful. I had it in my mind that the covers would be somewhat similar between the two engines (even thought there is two on the v6). Going from 5-6lbs on the 1MZ-FE to 17lbs on the 5S-FE seemed like a huge stretch for doing the same thing.
But I figured it out. The difference is the nuts vs. the bolts.
So the 17lbs are for the 4 30mm nuts.
Having 4 30mm nuts holding on an entire head cover is new and foreign for me and I didn't want to screw em up. Thanks.
The older spec seems to be 33 lb/ft. But later seems to be 17. I wonder if there was a change in material.
However, AZ's free repair guide still lists 33, FWIW. The more accurate would be their paid AllData service that may include TSB for torque value changes.
Whichever one you use, retorque after 30 minutes as the seals may take a set.
Quote:
Originally Posted by #2!
Ya your right I just checked and what I was looking at in Checker is a kit that has the spark plug seals. By the time I get 4 of those and pay for shipping the Felpro will be cheaper.
Anyone know what the torque specs are for a 96 5S-FE? Iv herd 17lbs in the 94 manual and also 33lbs from somewhere else on this forum.
2 cents on old thread:
Although it seems like a bad design to put a positive stop on the 1MZ vc bolts there may be good reason for it.
<ps sorry about the long explanation>
In short, the distance between the bolts is more area than the cover has strength to support. Thus, as the gasket ages and gets hard it does not compress as easily. Granted the area immediately around the bolts will compress by adding washers but that still leaves the center section between the bolts less compressed. The result, the cover bends at the bolts and it leaks in the middle. yes, this may slow it down for while but the gasket is hard. Its going to leak again.
OK - so you put a new gasket on your now bent cover; it pancakes the area around the bolts and still leaves the center section less compressed. This holds for years, but over time the gasket looses its elasticity and begins to leak again. Plus you now have the issue of the seal being more squished SO it has more surface area in contact with the hot heads which means more heat is transferred to the gasket making it get harder faster and leak sooner.
My vote is you leave the bolts alone and replace the hardened gasket. I'm at the 5 year mark and no problems when I did the following.
FWIW: clean the head spotless clean using an oil free solvent like lacquer thinner. Clean the valley where the gasket fits into the cover and all sharp transition joints. Install the gasket and apply a super thin layer of high temp RTV to the outer edge of the gasket wiping it smooth with your finger. Aplly small RTV fillets to the sharp angle areas (camshaft hump) Promptly install the cover. Torque to spec.
Hey at least they didn't put positive stops in the gasket material itself!
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95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
hi
I have a question about the part below in bold, I should apply a thin layer of RTV to the surface of the gasket that goes on the heads or to the outer side of the gasket(in that little corner that forms after I install the gasket on the cover), hope you understand my question, is hard to explain
also is this sealant good enough?
thanx a bunch
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73sport
2 cents on old thread:
Although it seems like a bad design to put a positive stop on the 1MZ vc bolts there may be good reason for it.
<ps sorry about the long explanation>
In short, the distance between the bolts is more area than the cover has strength to support. Thus, as the gasket ages and gets hard it does not compress as easily. Granted the area immediately around the bolts will compress by adding washers but that still leaves the center section between the bolts less compressed. The result, the cover bends at the bolts and it leaks in the middle. yes, this may slow it down for while but the gasket is hard. Its going to leak again.
OK - so you put a new gasket on your now bent cover; it pancakes the area around the bolts and still leaves the center section less compressed. This holds for years, but over time the gasket looses its elasticity and begins to leak again. Plus you now have the issue of the seal being more squished SO it has more surface area in contact with the hot heads which means more heat is transferred to the gasket making it get harder faster and leak sooner.
My vote is you leave the bolts alone and replace the hardened gasket. I'm at the 5 year mark and no problems when I did the following.
FWIW: clean the head spotless clean using an oil free solvent like lacquer thinner. Clean the valley where the gasket fits into the cover and all sharp transition joints. Install the gasket and apply a super thin layer of high temp RTV to the outer edge of the gasket wiping it smooth with your finger. Aplly small RTV fillets to the sharp angle areas (camshaft hump) Promptly install the cover. Torque to spec.
Hey at least they didn't put positive stops in the gasket material itself!
hi
I have a question about the part below in bold, I should apply a thin layer of RTV to the surface of the gasket that goes on the heads or to the outer side of the gasket(in that little corner that forms after I install the gasket on the cover), hope you understand my question, is hard to explain
You don't use any sealer on a rubber/silicone gasket. As long as you get the gasket mating surfaces 100% shiny metal clean, the rubber itself makes the seal, and needs no assistance. Sealers will only complicate future gasket replacements.
Areas where two machined parts meet (such as the head to intake manifold, or head to timing cover), or any sharp corner are the only exceptions as there will be a small gap between those parts and the gasket. Even then only a small dab of sealer is needed.
Quote:
In addition, they have machined it carefully to bottom out in the head, and once it does, that's it for tightening it up
This is done to prevent over tightening which can lead to warping or cracking of the components.
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, I put RTV on the block and NOT on the gasket.
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