No-start despite brand new starter -- also, weird wheel noises, post-repair

[everybodyever]

My 4-cyl. ’99 Camry won’t start today. (It wouldn’t last night, either, on my first few tries, but after I’d left the car alone for a while it did.) There is no click, and the starter doesn’t seem even to be trying to engage. I hear only a faint, mid-pitched and even electrical hum or buzz, and a bunch of dashboard warning lights come on.

Just a month ago, I replaced the original starter with a new Denso one. I’d intended simply to replace my original starter’s contacts myself over Christmas (when I have access to a heated garage) but had to replace it entirely after an incident in which it failed to disengage and burned itself up, presumably because the worn contacts had stuck shut.

Fast forward to unrelated work. While visiting Nashville at Christmas I had Firestone replace my front inner tie rods and front right hub assembly. I assumed this might also alleviate an unidentifiable rattling/knocking I often hear from the front right wheel well. It didn’t, and post-repair there are two new problems: A groaning noise every time I turned sharply just after starting, and an odd tendency for the brake and taillight-out warning lights to fade on and off at the same time for no reason.


When I brought the car back to the Nashville Firestone, they checked it out and attributed to the former to their having knocked out of whack and slightly bent an ABS ring during the repair, causing the ring to rub; they corrected it (they said), and I left town. However, the groaning still occurs. (They blamed the rattling on a faulty strut mount, but my front struts and mounts are all new.) I had not then noticed the warning light issue and have no idea whether it could be related to the repairs.

Today I was going to head to the Brooklyn Firestone so they could do a brake check to determine what the Nashville Firestone screwed up—only, you know, the car won’t start. Any ideas on any of these issues? I’m stumped regarding the no-start. Thanks so much!

[Mike Gerber]

"I hear only a faint, mid-pitched and even electrical hum or buzz,"

Could the buzz you are describing be more like a rapid ticking noise? If so, that's usually an indication of a weak battery, or poor/corroded connections at the battery itself or at the starter.

Mike

[yotatoter]

do your head lights stay on bright when you go to crank it over?? I would check your shifter inside the car,they sometimes stick,put it in neutral and than try to start it

[hill8570]

The buzz is normally indicative of a battery that's more or less dead. Are the rest of the lights in the rig dimming down in a major way when you try to crank?

[haux]

^ everyone above is likely correct.

I'm very familiar with the faint electrical hum/buzz, and to my recollection that's a bad battery.

How old is yours?

[everybodyever]

The car did not start in neutral, either, and the interior lights stayed on bright as I tried to start.

The battery is brand new -- in fact, it was handed to me as a warrantied replacement just a few months ago in my then-diagnosis effort even though the old one was fine -- and I was told after I fried my starter last month that the battery was fine. Nothing was left on in the car, either, so I don't know why it would be dead. However, thanks for the suggestion; I was unfamiliar with the noise. I will bring the battery to AutoZone today and let y'all know.

[haux]

Originally Posted by everybodyever

The car did not start in neutral, either, and the interior lights stayed on bright as I tried to start.

The battery is brand new -- in fact, it was handed to me as a warrantied replacement just a few months ago in my then-diagnosis effort even though the old one was fine -- and I was told after I fried my starter last month that the battery was fine. Nothing was left on in the car, either, so I don't know why it would be dead. However, thanks for the suggestion; I was unfamiliar with the noise. I will bring the battery to AutoZone today and let y'all know.

Are the battery cables looking alright? No corrosion, and contact with the battery itself is good?

[everybodyever]

I examined and cleaned the cables, terminals, posts and whatnot, and the car still will not start. Still no luck. None of the interior lights except for the clock dim when I try to start. Along with the slight buzz/hum I hear from inside inside, leaning out the window I hear a click as I first turn the key to start.

I could not see much of the cables and starter connections sans jackstands. (Also, it's parked on the street in Brooklyn, and it's cold out.) My initial thought was that the garage that replaced the starter might have overlooked some other connection that I might have fried last month along with the starter.

The battery should be fine; it's almost brand new, and I didn't leave on any lights. Even if I had left lights on, after the other night's first start failure, I successfully started the car and drove around a while to recharge the battery if necessary. That didn't work, obviously. I would not be surprised if the battery is no good but can think of no good reason why it shouldn't be.

Since I'm under warranty at the garage that replaced the starter, the car is about to get towed there for examination at the garage's expense. I'll keep y'all posted.

Meanwhile, do y'all have any ideas regarding the right front end rattle I've been hearing at medium speeds on slightly bumpy roads, or the groaning from that wheel when the car is first started and turns?

I've read some people blaming the former sound on CV joints, strut mounts or some bushings (I forget what). The strut mounts are less than a year old, and the car passed New York State inspection just two weeks ago with a warning about the front passenger bearing I ended up replacing. As for the groaning, I've no idea other than the out-of-whack ABS ring the Firestone mechanic mentioned and supposedly corrected.

[haux]

I'd definitely like to hear about the no-start thing if you get it resolved. I keep thinking battery battery battery... but you say it's new. So that totally throws me off. I have heard that sound many times before but not within the past year, so I'm having a hard time remembering what the cause was. I keep thinking it was the battery!

It's quite possible whoever worked on the car before screwed up with putting something back the way it's supposed to go. Hopefully the shop figures it out!

As for the noise... I'm so burnt out on tracking down oddities of my own. You mentioned you were going to take it back somewhere it was worked on before, but you couldn't get it started in the first place to take it there. I think it was Firestone? Are you still going to do that?

The groaning noise you're referring to... does it sort of sound like a dying seal? I think that's the best I can describe it, hehe. My steering wheel has made this noise for the past five years. It happens primarily in cold weather. Does yours only happen when cold?

Although I don't know if it's coming from the steering wheel itself. You can hear it in the engine bay too toward the firewall where that joint is.

[everybodyever]

Y'all were right. A mechanic at the place at which the starter work was under warranty just called to say the battery is very weak and will not hold a charge. He said simply that the reason I could not start the car for several days was that it's very cold outside. Um, what? I have been starting the car in New York winters for years with no problem until now.

I explained that the battery is very new and asked if this could be an issue with the battery or starter connections or with the alternator failing to charge the battery. He said that the connections and starter were fine, but a moment later, while I was on the phone, he said, "oh yes, your alternator is overcharging your battery to 14.5 volts and damaging it" and recommended replacing the alternator.

Last I checked 14.5 volts was an acceptable charge. And if the alternator were going bad, why didn't the garage tell me so a month ago when I asked it to check other electrical components while replacing the starter?

For now I'll replace the battery under warranty and then test the alternator myself. Perhaps I'm being overly cautious, but as a 25-year-old woman I'm wary of getting hosed by mechanics. What do y'all think? Could the problem be the alternator, even with a 14.5 voltage, or is there anything else that could have gotten screwed up during either last month's starter burn-up or garage repair?

[everybodyever]

Oh, and haux: The groaning noise just began two weeks ago when I picked up the car from the Nashville Firestone, and it's been cold ever since (in Nashville and here in New York) -- so yeah, it's only happened in the cold. It sounds like something rubbing against something else with which it shouldn't be coming in contact. But by dying seal, do you mean a rubber seal that has worn through or, uh, a trained animal in distress? Because it does sound sort of like the latter, in a depressing first-scene-of-Dumbo kind of way.

[Mike Gerber]

The alternator putting out 14.5 volts is fine, especially after trying to start the car for extended periods of time, and the battery being weak. 14.5 volts will not over charge the battery. Get the new battery put in and then call around to auto parts stores in your area and ask if they offer free testing of the charging system, with the alternator still on the car; many do. Find one that does offer this free service and take the car there to be checked out.

Good luck.

Mike

[haux]

Originally Posted by everybodyever

Oh, and haux: The groaning noise just began two weeks ago when I picked up the car from the Nashville Firestone, and it's been cold ever since (in Nashville and here in New York) -- so yeah, it's only happened in the cold. It sounds like something rubbing against something else with which it shouldn't be coming in contact. But by dying seal, do you mean a rubber seal that has worn through or, uh, a trained animal in distress? Because it does sound sort of like the latter, in a depressing first-scene-of-Dumbo kind of way.

Yes, seal as in the sea creature. ...or I suppose another type of dying animal.

I'll see if I can record the sound today! It's warmer now, 30's, but it may still do it. If you're getting the same sound... I have absolutely no idea. Could be the CV joint... could be something in the steering column itself? *shrug* ...I've been living with it for a while.

Oh, and do what Mike Gerber suggested. If you can start the car after the new battery... find an AutoZone/Advance Auto Parts/O'Reilly or another brand of auto store in your area that will test your alternator for free (with it in the vehicle).

[AlmightyCamry777]

I'm thinking bad alternator, loose or slipping belt, or bad ground. An alternator can put out 14.5 volts but still be bad, it might fail when a load is put on it, like when you turn on the headlights etc. and you'd never know it unless you do a thorough test of the alternator. You need a complete diagnostic of the starting system, if you are tapped out financially what the other fellow said, remove the alt and take it to the auto parts for a free test.

For your new battery to die so fast means: new battery bad out of the box (i always check the water in a new battery because every new battery i ever bought was low), short circuit somewhere draining the battery when the car is idle, or alternator simply not recharging battery.

[Mike Gerber]

"An alternator can put out 14.5 volts but still be bad, it might fail when a load is put on it, like when you turn on the headlights etc. and you'd never know it unless you do a thorough test of the alternator."

Exactly. That's why I suggested gettting the car running with the new battery and then taking it to an auto parts store that does testing of the complete charging system for free, with the alternator still on the car.

Mike