Sludge - asking for last minute help.... - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Zarjulius · 01-17-2010, 06:35 PM

I bought a 1999 Camry LE V6 in September. The car only had 58K on it and everything seemed clean as a whistle. I wasn't aware of the whole sludge propensity of these cars and didn't ask to check. Needless to say, the dealership did not mention anything either, nor did they perform a check for sludge before they sold it to me.

Now the car has 64K (I drove to Florida and back). At the end of the trip the oil pressure light started flickering. A local dealership told me I have very little oil and should do an oil consumption test in 500-1000 miles. Not 200 miles passed and the light came on again, this time stayed on so I pulled over immediately, turned it off, had it towed to the dealership where I bought the car.

Long story short, they are telling me that it is all sludged up, that the oil gallies are clogged, oil consumption excessive, that there are engine noises (of which I was not aware) and that there's no fix but to replace the motor, even though the car was running beautifully up until that point. An old engine that has 82K on it and no warranty would cost me about 1,600 alltogether (dealer is splitting the cost in half) and a new, remanufactured engine would cost me 3,500 (that's for the part and dealer will pay the labor). Asked another mechanic in town who had not seen the vehicle, who said that he could try an engine flush on it but it may or may not work on my car. I have already read all the tons of forums on sludge and engine flushes and I know most people don't recommend it. I am getting set on possibly going for the new motor (100K, 5year warranty, and car would run forever basically, so probably more worth it than a gamble on an old engine that could have hidden problems) but would just like to see if anyone has any advice before I decide. Unfortunately I don't have pics of the sludge, but when the dealer opened the valve cover to show me, there was sludge all over. Pretty thick. He said it ain't the worst he's seen but pretty bad. Is there really no other fix but to replace the motor at this point? Any help or suggestions are very much welcome.

Btw, Toyota declined to help with their sludge reimbursement program since it's well over the 8 year program limit.

Thanks very much

bigbird · 01-17-2010, 07:20 PM

somthing isnt right there. the 1mzfe(V6) had VERY few sludgle problems but the worst of it was in the gen4s but even then almost never below 100k. either the mileage is incorrect or the car was abused for most of its life. If its really gunked up that much then you can either do a complete rebuild and clean up or replace it. Id say seafoam could help but that may take a lot depending on how bad it is and like your said...there may be hidden problems since some parts of the motor mmay not have been lubed properly..

Zarjulius · 01-17-2010, 07:24 PM

I was under the impression that the V6 engine 1MZ is the one with the sludge problem, as opposed to the 4-cyl one..based on all I've read.. What exactly is this seafoam and how do I use it? Thanks

Zarjulius · 01-17-2010, 07:36 PM

Prestige Toyota

Zarjulius · 01-17-2010, 07:41 PM

It was sold with a 30-day warranty.... which is lame. I thought it was something like 3 months but I guess was wrong. They did some free repairs for me of "good will" before... but clearly not this. What's the deal with the 5 months? Is there some law? Thanks

***96paseo*** · 01-17-2010, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarjulius

I was under the impression that the V6 engine 1MZ is the one with the sludge problem, as opposed to the 4-cyl one..based on all I've read.. What exactly is this seafoam and how do I use it? Thanks

You can add seafoam to your oil and it helps break down sludge. Did the dealership mention what kind of noises? Say like a rod knock or the cam journals whining? You can try running synthetic oil and add some seafoam but if its already got bearing issues its not going to do you much good.

Zarjulius · 01-17-2010, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96paseo

You can add seafoam to your oil and it helps break down sludge. Did the dealership mention what kind of noises? Say like a rod knock or the cam journals whining? You can try running synthetic oil and add some seafoam but if its already got bearing issues its not going to do you much good.

I'm not mechanically savvy so I have no idea if it has bearing issues, and they did not use these terms. I think they mentioned some knocking noises but I didn't hear any. I DID hear, on the day that the light came on a second time and I had it towed, a "whining" noise that went up in pitch as I revved the engine, which I never heard before. That was the only thing sound-wise.. I am pretty sure they are hiding something from me and not being completely technical with a full description, even though I've asked for it. All they gave me was the notes the mechanic jogged down as he inspected it. "oil gallies are clogged; sludge build-up; excessive consumption"... I saw the sludge myself, but that's about it.

Zarjulius · 01-17-2010, 08:02 PM

does $3,500 for a remanufactured engine sound a little much? just for the part that is... I cannot find prices like this anywhere online... I guess I am interested in a long-term solution rather than short.. but if this seafoam stuff would cure the motor I'd do it. I just have no idea what else is wrong with it and how many parts are contaminated with sludge...

***96paseo*** · 01-17-2010, 08:06 PM

Whining noise could be either cam journals or main bearings. Since the oil consumption is already excessive at low mileage, your piston rings and valve guides are probably shot too. Go for the reman engine. No need to take chances on an engine with no warranty. Go with synthetic oil to keep the sludge problems from coming up again.

Kenny_McCormic · 01-17-2010, 08:07 PM

I suspect the engine has never had an oil change.

***JohnGD*** · 01-17-2010, 08:24 PM

Check Marshall or Jasper Engines. Good remans typically offer 3yr/100K miles warranty. So 5yr/100K miles is even better on a reman. Just make sure you don't end up with a junkyard pull.

http://www.marshallengines.com/
http://www.jasperengines.com/index.php

Only a competent lawyer in NY will be able to give you good advice about "pre-existing condition". The sludge was most likely there already, so you shouldn't have to spend the $1600. But it's a used car with an explicit warranty, and you're past that. So don't know.

You can get free consultations, can't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarjulius

does $3,500 for a remanufactured engine sound a little much? just for the part that is... I cannot find prices like this anywhere online... I guess I am interested in a long-term solution rather than short.. but if this seafoam stuff would cure the motor I'd do it. I just have no idea what else is wrong with it and how many parts are contaminated with sludge...

***96paseo*** · 01-17-2010, 08:28 PM

http://www.cmengines.com/

These guys have a longblock for $2488. Not sure what the core price is though.

Zarjulius · 01-17-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJJJJJ

Seafoam can do more damage than good as it is a solvent (isopropyl alcohol + naptha oil) not a detergent. 5w30 oil is light enough to suspend particles and has enough detergent additives in it to clear out sludge in chemical suspension, it's not as risky as a flush with VOC (volatile organic compound) solvents.

Spending $3500 on a motor is alot for a old car.

It's clear the dealer sold you a defective car, it's surprising they won't even work with you half way on the cost of the repair.

And what Kenny said is likely true: this car has never seen an oil change - that's the really the primary cause of the oil galley passages being clogged.

As far as the dealer, they are willing to split the cost 50% if I go with a junkyard motor, and pay for the labor only if I go with a reman motor. Basically they would pay about the same, 1500-1600 while my cost obviously will go up. Maybe I can still negotiate with them on that.

As far as the oil changes, that pisses me off, because it's clearly not my fault what the previous owner (or 2) did with the car. Most likely, due to the low mileage, it sat in a garage for months or years at a time. Damn waste for otherwise such a nice car.

Zarjulius · 01-17-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJJJJJ

Give you an example: A customer had bought a new Avalon and found out months afterwards that the moonroof was aftermarket dealer installed - not a factory Toyota unit. Dealer replaced the entire car at their cost with a new one.

I doubt they will do this. When I tried reasoning with the guy he told me that nobody ever opens the valve covers in a car and inspect the motor unless there is a reason to believe there's a problem, and that they never do that. He said the car went thru their usual used car inspection, they replaced all the brakes and maybe a few other minor parts, cleaned it all up, and voila. It did feel great when I first pick it up and pretty much all through now except a dead sensor and seized up front left caliper, both replaced for free by them. I just thought that due to the widespread knowledge of sludge in these V6, they probably should have known about this and checked. I have no idea how to get a free consultation from a lawyer....

Zarjulius · 01-17-2010, 09:45 PM

I just noticed that the warranty option papers I got from the dealer are from Marshall Engines and it is 3yr/100K not 5 year like I said before... So I guess that's where they are getting the engine. Anybody know if $3,500 from Marshall seems unreasonable? If I called them myself and asked would they tell me how much it should cost? Thanks