3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
Hello all. Ive been reading through some previous threads by using the search feature and have found a lot of info, but I would like to explain my problem and see if anyone can answer it directly.
I was on the interstate and she began to stutter on me so i pulled over and i was coming to a stop she slowly died. I tried cranking a few times but it she wouldnt start. SO i called a friend to come and tow me and while i was waiting, i tried to crank her again... nothing.
Got her home and started checking things out. It was getting fuel, but had weak spark, so I decided to replace Distributor cap, rotor, plugs and wires. Pulled off the Cap and rotor and they were pretty corroded so i figured that was the problem. Replaced them both with new and installed plugs and wires. The old plugs had a little but of corrosion on them but they were just needing t be replaced. No oil fouling or carbon fouling.
After install i started it back up and it ran perfectly at idle on the initial startup. There was a lot of black smoke coming from the tailpipe which i assumed was from the many crank attempts and the raw fuel was simply siting in the cylinders.
I took it out for a test drive and it is stuttering under acceleration. If i sit at idle, it will idle smooth for about 2 seconds then almost stall. It does this continually.
Is there something that i skipped over in the install of the Dis cap, etc....?
What could this stutter be? I checked and rechecked all of the lines that were disconnected.
+1 Testing the coil would be the next step. How many miles on it?
__________________
1996 Paseo 5E-FE 269,xxx miles - Gotta fix that sagging DS door. New hinges on the way.
1993 Camry LE 5S-FE 249,xxx miles - New water pump, TB etc etc
1989 Camry-Gone but not forgotten. Car has become a birthday gift for my cousin.
1997 Mazda B2300 213,xxx miles - New flasher relay installed.
135k. was my grandmothers car and she stopped driving it. it sat for 3+ years and i finally picked it up and its been completely reliable for the past 3 years. How do i test the coil? is that on autozone's website? Yes i do have a multimeter.
135k. was my grandmothers car and she stopped driving it. it sat for 3+ years and i finally picked it up and its been completely reliable for the past 3 years. How do i test the coil? is that on autozone's website? Yes i do have a multimeter.
135k seems a bit early but not impossible. To test coil, remove distributor cap. Set meter to ohms and put leads on the negative and positive posts on coil to check primary. To check secondary, put your lead on the negative post and the other on high tension post. I'll post the resistance specs when I get home unless someone else has them handy.
__________________
1996 Paseo 5E-FE 269,xxx miles - Gotta fix that sagging DS door. New hinges on the way.
1993 Camry LE 5S-FE 249,xxx miles - New water pump, TB etc etc
1989 Camry-Gone but not forgotten. Car has become a birthday gift for my cousin.
1997 Mazda B2300 213,xxx miles - New flasher relay installed.
You can get the coil specs from any manual. There are Toyota factory service manuals stickied at the top of the Camry forum over at AutomotiveForums.com. They are available for free. Download the generation 3 manual.
Remember, the impedance will change with temperature. When my coil went bad, it measured within spec, because I measured it when it was cold. When the engine heated up it heated up the coil, and the impedance went out of spec and caused a misfire. So just because it was within spec when cold, doesn't mean that it is still good. I would personally replace it because when I got mine it was only $35 at Advance Auto Parts.
Also, remember that to accurately measure resistances that low, you need a good multimeter.
__________________ All of the lag, none of the boost.
VTEC It's like waiting for really bad sex.
Remember, the impedance will change with temperature. When my coil went bad, it measured within spec, because I measured it when it was cold. When the engine heated up it heated up the coil, and the impedance went out of spec and caused a misfire. So just because it was within spec when cold, doesn't mean that it is still good. I would personally replace it because when I got mine it was only $35 at Advance Auto Parts.
Also, remember that to accurately measure resistances that low, you need a good multimeter.
Thats called thermal failure and no your not measuring impedance. Impedance testers measure resistance on AC circuits. Your car works with DC so your measuring the "DC resistance" of the coil. Yes the coil should be within spec cold or hot. The resistance range covers what the coil should read whether cold or hot. The manual does not specify measuring the coil at cold or hot states.
Stevo405, don't worry about having the worlds greatest meter for testing this. The readings you've already taken are fine. The coil needs to be inspected for cracks especially near the high tension lead. If there are any cracks in the coil, replace it. A bad ECT sensor can cause poor idle, but wouldn't cause you to die on the road. Finish testing/inspecting your ignition system before you move on to the next suspect. If you went and picked up the camry FSM, check the specs and test the pickup coils in the distributor as well. The two pin plug is for 12 volts power to the coil. The 4 pin connector is for the pickup coils.
__________________
1996 Paseo 5E-FE 269,xxx miles - Gotta fix that sagging DS door. New hinges on the way.
1993 Camry LE 5S-FE 249,xxx miles - New water pump, TB etc etc
1989 Camry-Gone but not forgotten. Car has become a birthday gift for my cousin.
1997 Mazda B2300 213,xxx miles - New flasher relay installed.
The ignition coil in a car is nothing more than a transformer, which only works with AC current. If you pass DC current through a transformer you will get nothing on the other side because dI/dt on the primary coil will be zero.
Impedance is simply resistance with an imaginary component, R+jw. Resistors have only a real component to their impedance, so they are usually just refereed to as resistance. All capacitors and inductors (including transformers) have an imaginary component to their impedance. Z(C)=1/(jwc) Z(L)=jwL
It is very difficult to measure the imaginary component to the impedance, so the real component is what is usually measured and compared.
All I'm saying is that when my coil went bad the coil measured within spec and the car ran fine when cold. When the car had been at operating temp for a few minutes, it would die if it dropped below 1000 rpm. It turned out to be a bad coil.
__________________ All of the lag, none of the boost.
VTEC It's like waiting for really bad sex.
The ignition coil in a car is nothing more than a transformer, which only works with AC current. If you pass DC current through a transformer you will get nothing on the other side because dI/dt on the primary coil will be zero.
Impedance is simply resistance with an imaginary component, R+jw. Resistors have only a real component to their impedance, so they are usually just refereed to as resistance. All capacitors and inductors (including transformers) have an imaginary component to their impedance. Z(C)=1/(jwc) Z(L)=jwL
It is very difficult to measure the imaginary component to the impedance, so the real component is what is usually measured and compared.
All I'm saying is that when my coil went bad the coil measured within spec and the car ran fine when cold. When the car had been at operating temp for a few minutes, it would die if it dropped below 1000 rpm. It turned out to be a bad coil.
Then why is it called a coil? Do a little research on the expansion and collapse of the magnetic field in a coil of wire. That very property of a "DC coil" is what makes your spark. Not one single component in your car runs off of AC voltage. Get that through your head. AC voltage is produced in the alternator, rectified and regulated before the battery ever sees it let alone your ECU or any other sensoror component. Read the links below. They might help you understand why impedance only exists in AC circuits. All I'm saying is "Know your theory before posting about imaginary components." Hopefully you don't have poor Steveo405 on a massive witch hunt for that imaginary transformer in his distributor. http://www.ndt-ed.org/GeneralResourc...CImpedance.htm
__________________
1996 Paseo 5E-FE 269,xxx miles - Gotta fix that sagging DS door. New hinges on the way.
1993 Camry LE 5S-FE 249,xxx miles - New water pump, TB etc etc
1989 Camry-Gone but not forgotten. Car has become a birthday gift for my cousin.
1997 Mazda B2300 213,xxx miles - New flasher relay installed.
Well since my coil checked out, what would be the next step in determining my problem? Im assuming that if it jumped time i would get a cel for a misfire? or would that depend on how big of a jump it was? Is there a way to check timing without removing the timing belt cover?
Well since my coil checked out, what would be the next step in determining my problem? Im assuming that if it jumped time i would get a cel for a misfire? or would that depend on how big of a jump it was? Is there a way to check timing without removing the timing belt cover?
I strongly believe that you have a bad coil. I would say just replace it. It appears that the cost has gone up a little bit since I did mine, but I found one for $45.39 http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web..._1160877396___
If you wanted to try to test the coil when warm you could, but I never actually did that myself. You would need to let the engine get to operating temperature and stay there for a few minutes to warm up the coil. Then take the measurements again before the coil cools down. Just make sure that you have a good meter. I have seen many cheaper meters that cannot accurately measure resistances below a few hundred ohms.
It is very unlikely that your timing belt jumped a tooth. If you are worried about your ignition timing you will need a timing light to check that, which doesn't involve removing the timing belt cover.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 96paseo
Then why is it called a coil? Do a little research on the expansion and collapse of the magnetic field in a coil of wire. That very property of a "DC coil" is what makes your spark. Not one single component in your car runs off of AC voltage. Get that through your head. AC voltage is produced in the alternator, rectified and regulated before the battery ever sees it let alone your ECU or any other sensoror component. Read the links below. They might help you understand why impedance only exists in AC circuits. All I'm saying is "Know your theory before posting about imaginary components." Hopefully you don't have poor Steveo405 on a massive witch hunt for that imaginary transformer in his distributor. http://www.ndt-ed.org/GeneralResourc...CImpedance.htm
It is called a coil because a coil of wire is also called an inductor and a solenoid. A transformer is simply two inductors that share a common ferrous core.
For a transformer to function, there has to be a change in current (AC) in the primary winding, which will cause a changing magnetic field in the core, which will produce a changing voltage (AC) in the secondary winding. To do this the the ignition system sends the coil a very sudden spike of 12V to the primary winding, which can be modeled as a square wave of 12V p-p with a +6V DC offset. This is for all intensive purposes an AC signal, as all square waves are.
If a DC current were applied to the primary winding of a transformer, there would be no voltage or current on the secondary winding. If you don't believe me, grab a transformer (or ignition coil) and apply 12V DC to the primary winding while measuring the voltage on the secondary winding. I promise you will get a reading of 0V.
Impedance is an expansion on resistance. Impedance adds another component to the resistance, an imaginary component. Before you think imaginary means that it doesn't exist, an imaginary number is a number with a factor of sqrt(-1), also known as i to mathematicians or j to electrical engineers. This component is a function of the frequency of the current passing through it. All capacitors and inductors have an impedance, which is a function of frequency. When they are used in a DC circuit the imaginary component is ignored because the frequency is zero which cancels out that component. When the car's ignition system sends a square wave pulse, it has a frequency, 1/(period of the pulse).
Yes the car's electrical system runs off of 12V DC, but the igniter can, and does, convert this into an AC signal by producing a square wave.
And yes I do know my theory. I am a senior Electrical Engineering student and I work for a company as an electrical engineer designing inertial guidance test systems. I have spent many years learning and practicing these theories, and I don't appreciate it when you suggest that I don't know the very basics that my career revolves around.
__________________ All of the lag, none of the boost.
VTEC It's like waiting for really bad sex.
Last edited by 95PimpingCamry; 01-19-2010 at 04:25 PM.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
ToyotaNation.com is an independent Toyota/Lexus enthusiast website. ToyotaNation.com is not sponsored by or in any way affiliated with Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. The Toyota, Lexus and Scion names and logos are trademarks owned by Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc.
New hinges on the way.
Do a little research on the expansion and collapse of the magnetic field in a coil of wire. That very property of a "DC coil" is what makes your spark. Not one single component in your car runs off of AC voltage. Get that through your head.
AC voltage is produced in the alternator, rectified and regulated before the battery ever sees it let alone your ECU or any other sensoror component. Read the links below. They might help you understand why impedance only exists in AC circuits. All I'm saying is "Know your theory before posting about imaginary components." Hopefully you don't have poor Steveo405 on a massive witch hunt for that imaginary transformer in his distributor.
Linear Mode
