do you do valve clearance adjustment (i4) every 60k miles ?

[fenixus]

hi people,

Since my ride is now at 70k miles I am really wondering if that is necessary to do a valve clearance adjustment ? i got some slight louder engine operations now, maybe that's because of oil type switch from dino to synthetic or something else... not sure.

do you do the valve clearance adjustment every 60k miles ? Haynes manual states it should be at least checked every 60k miles and adjusted if necessary.

what good can it do when done correctly by a pro ? how much is it ?

what bad can it do if done incorrectly ?

what if i don't do that at all ?

any cons against doing it myself ? what tools would i need ? asking because i'm planning on opening the 4-banger valve cover anyways to replace the gasket (minor oil leak on the back) in Spring.

[JohnGD]

Special tool, on Amazon:
http://www.alltradetools.com/EN-938.htm

Feeler gauge set, $2.99 at Harbor Freight, similarly priced at Pep Boys and couple of bucks higher at Sears:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=32214

The main concern is with too tight a clearance. When there is insufficient time of contact between the valve and the cylinder head, the combustion heat doesn't dissipate from the valve as quickly. The heat build up "burns" the valve.

Loose clearance simply results in a loud valve train and usually people respond to this. So it's not as big of a deal as a tight clearance.

Toyota used to recommend 60K mile check/service. But I guess marketing department done away with that. People said they're not expected to change much. So dunno here.

When in doubt of prior maintenance (especially oil changes), you might want to check. At least that will give you a data point.

Originally Posted by fenixus

hi people,

Since my ride is now at 70k miles I am really wondering if that is necessary to do a valve clearance adjustment ? i got some slight louder engine operations now, maybe that's because of oil type switch from dino to synthetic or something else... not sure.

do you do the valve clearance adjustment every 60k miles ? Haynes manual states it should be at least checked every 60k miles and adjusted if necessary.

what good can it do when done correctly by a pro ? how much is it ?

what bad can it do if done incorrectly ?

what if i don't do that at all ?

any cons against doing it myself ? what tools would i need ? asking because i'm planning on opening the 4-banger valve cover anyways to replace the gasket (minor oil leak on the back) in Spring.

[fenixus]

thanks JohnGD.

i was reading Haynes and just realized that "adjustment" actually requires removing and replacing some shims with new ones of exact (different) thickness, so i guess i will leave it to a pro. not as easy as i thought, too much hassle for me with this task.

do you know how much a shop can charge for valve clearance adjustment ?
what is the Toyota recommended valve clearance check/adjustment intervals nowadays ? i feel like it's supposed to be done to get the engine run as it used to in past (now is louder). ATRA shop i visited gave me a business card of another shop doing engine repairs, i might just call them to see how much they charge for it.

in case i replace the valve cover gasket only and then decide to adjust valves at a specialized shop, will they have to use a new gasket again ?

thanks.

[JohnGD]

IIRC used to be about $300-400 for the adjustment. Knowing they even measured anything would be tough. You should require them to write down all clearances measured.

Measuring the valve clearances is the easy part. With the valve cover off (say, replacing the gasket), it would be a good time to do this. However, you need to get the front onto the stands so you can rotate the crank. Of course, that means an 18" or 25" breaker bar (no need to remove plugs), as in: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=30395

And if you don't have 1/2" sockets, this was on sale during the holidays for ~$20. Not sure how the "new" cheap 14" breaker bar will work (used to be 18" which I have, along with their 25" one).
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=45467

I would measure the clearances while the cover is off. If all are within spec, put the new gasket on there with dabs of RTV (Permatex Ultra Grey, or just sensor safe high temp Red RTV, $0.99 at 99-cent stores). Otherwise put the old one back and let the shop handle the rest, tell them what you measured so they don't toy with you.

Found this at 99-cent store, used only various Permatex RTV myself however:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=90026

If you do let us know what you measure. Yeah, just more tools all the time. I would be particularly interested what you measure of the exhaust ones.

Originally Posted by fenixus

thanks JohnGD.

i was reading Haynes and just realized that "adjustment" actually requires removing and replacing some shims with new ones of exact (different) thickness, so i guess i will leave it to a pro. not as easy as i thought, too much hassle for me with this task.

do you know how much a shop can charge for valve clearance adjustment ?
what is the Toyota recommended valve clearance check/adjustment intervals nowadays ? i feel like it's supposed to be done to get the engine run as it used to in past (now is louder). ATRA shop i visited gave me a business card of another shop doing engine repairs, i might just call them to see how much they charge for it.

in case i replace the valve cover gasket only and then decide to adjust valves at a specialized shop, will they have to use a new gasket again ?

thanks.

[fenixus]

yeah i guess i can at least take the measurements myself. will get the feeler gauge and breaker bar from HF tomorrow if time allows (visiting muffler shop in morning first). i'm very curious as well what the valve clearances are at 70k miles. when it was at 35k it was almost dead silent with hood closed.

in my ignorance i didn't think of the fact that rotating camshaft (hope this is the one, easiest to access) makes the wheels to spin too haha .
good i've got the stands and a jack from past adventures. it sounds like i'm only waiting for a lovely warm Spring weekend to get this done (plus seafoaming and 2 consecutive oil changes before and after).

i've got only 1/2'' deep socket set (metric) and a 1/2'' click-stop torque wrench, hoping it would fit as rest of my tools are 3/8''.
i'm planning to use my 1/2'' torque wrench instead of a breaker bar. it should do (i hope), i use it for all tasks requiring lots of force wherever my 1/2'' deep sockets can fit.

[zythr]

Valve clearance can be tough, because of the shims and also there is some math involved, with regard to shim thickness, valve adjustment, etc. It's not like old days and easier way of doing a valve clearance adjustment.

[hill8570]

Show of hands -- does anyone actually do this?

Years and years ago, I used to check the valve clearances on Toyota engines. Never found anything needing adjustment, so I finally decided I had better things to do with my time.

[ghettosled]

i have 172k miles on my camry and i have yet to perform this.

[73sport]

Originally Posted by JohnGD

The main concern is with too tight a clearance. When there is insufficient time of contact between the valve and the cylinder head, the combustion heat doesn't dissipate from the valve as quickly. The heat build up "burns" the valve.

Loose clearance simply results in a loud valve train and usually people respond to this. So it's not as big of a deal as a tight clearance.

In addition to what John said;
You can't hear the valves which are too tight (have no clearance). The Exhaust valve being held open, will overheat as a result of no contact with the head for cooling and those hot exhaust gases whistling past it. The end result is a burned valve.
- A burned valve is no compression in the cylinder. . . From there it all goes down hill. Gas mileage, failed emisions, fouled spark plug, plugged cat convert for trying to burn raw fuel. . . .
_ The intake being held open will stop the show as combustion chamber gases will enter the intake plenum and impact all cylinders. It will run bad!

I did a write up on the counterpart (the V6). Mine were to loose and required adjustment. An adjust made with a custom part as Toyo doesn't make a shim thick enough to correct the condition.
Again, not that it was hurting anything, but the noise was annoying. >>Link>> Who has Successfully Adjust Valve Lash 1MZ????

[73sport]

Originally Posted by hill8570

Show of hands -- does anyone actually do this?

Years and years ago, I used to check the valve clearances on Toyota engines. Never found anything needing adjustment, so I finally decided I had better things to do with my time.

If you look at the design of the valve train, I'd expect some will get tight and cause burned valves. So checking is an once of prevention.

Typically those valves beating on the seat with 150 to 250lbs of force lead to the valve seating deeper into the valve seat. Should this occur, it could lead to the valve being held open and subsequent burned valves.

He alsmost has all the tools, so I'd check it.

=======================================
Thread jack????

Personally I wouldn't recomend using your torque wrench for anything other than measuring torque (maybe I read that wrong?). I have spendy Snap-On one and wouldn't use it for daily use (ratchet) or breaker bar as it WILL degrade its performance!

I doubt a HF torque wrench holds 5% tolerance at full scale let alone 1/4 scale so I'd buy a breaker bar.

Lets say full scale is 250ft/lbs
250f/lbs * .05 = 12.5f/lbs which would be where its most accuarate (near the end of the scale. So thats 250 +/-12.5ft/lbs

At 1/5 scale or 50lbs, I'd guess it heads towards 8 to 10% accurate. (45 to 55 when set at 50lbs.

$250 Wrench
Accurate to 2% of the reading from 20% of full scale to full scale.

$500 Wrench
Torque accuracy ±2%CW, ±3% CCW, 20% to 100% of full scale.
This says that from 20% to 100% of its range they guarantee it (50lbs to 250lbs, it will deliver ±2%CW).
OR - at 50 you'd get 49 - to 51, at 100 you'd get 98 - 102. That's fine by me! But thats a $500 wrench!

Personally I can't imagine a 30 dollar knock off having any kind of repeatablity. That is, it might be +/-5% new, and then decline rapidly if left loaded at 100Lb/ft like the guys at the tire stores do or thrown about. Most cheap k/o's are not meant to be reveresed and used as a breaker bar.

Something to think about!

[fenixus]

thanks for your opinions guys!

in my case a have a ticking noise coming from crankcase - left side, cyls 1&2. that's why i guess there is something out of adjustment. first thing coming to my mind was valve clearance. it started doing it let's say 8 months ago, it's not getting louder, it's just there (wasn't in past). it also makes my exhaust tick at rear end (same sound carried through metal parts).
ATRA techs confirmed this when i was checking tranny at their shop and gave me contact with another guy doing this kind of work.
once i know measurements i will know if i want to spend $400 for the valve clearance adjustment on my 5sfe.

as per using torque wrench as a breaker bar. i never assumed a $15 wrench to be precise. anyways how about i set the torque to let's say lowest 20ft-lbs and let the wrench body (not the spring) carry the load when i use it as a breaker bar ? IMO it shouldn't hurt it in any way... just something i read on this forums. let me know if it makes sense to you.

[Kenny_McCormic]

Might as well do valve seals while you are in there.

[fenixus]

thanks Kenny, but i don't want to spend thousands on this car. just want it to run more quiet again, i can live with that occasional puff of white smoke from exhaust hehe, it's a 10yr old car, doesn't bother me very much.

[Mike Gerber]

Originally Posted by hill8570

Show of hands -- does anyone actually do this?

Years and years ago, I used to check the valve clearances on Toyota engines. Never found anything needing adjustment, so I finally decided I had better things to do with my time.

I put 173,000 miles on an 86 Camry with the 2SE engine and never touched the valves. Car ran as good then as it did when it was new. No noticable noises from the engine. Gas mileage was always the same.

Mike

[73sport]

As above, if you can pull the plugs, valve cover, and have means to turn the engine over, grab a feeler gauge set and that gasket and you can have a couple hours of fun!

You turn the engine over to seal the valves (cam lobe away from lifter) and check the clearance. It sounds like you could do this if yanking the valve cover off is no big deal to you. It'll give you peace of mind. If it turns out not to be the valve hopefully lead you to what does make the noise.

FYI: I have found that Toyo does not stock all the shims. Hence there could easily be a need to pull the valve cover, take measurements, pull out shims which need to be measured (if clearance is out of spec) and then put it back and drive it until the part(s) comes in. Its not like it will be any worse in a week. All you need to pop the shim is a BIG screw driver with a nice flat end. With a little finness, you depress the valve spring, pop the shim and measure the shim. One person can do it. It will take some grunt power though!

Try the back side of the V6, real FUN!!! {NOT}
you look at this? http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=118997

As for the wrench:
Nothing personal. Just trying to inform people. I'd get a long handle ratchet and save my special tools for when I need them tho. . .