Ground Controls? Please chime in!

['_']

I know this topic has been discussed a million times, but I would like to get some feedback from any members that have had a personal experience with Eibach ground controls matched with Tokico Blue struts. 2 members that come to mind are Gibson99 and Camryman97. Any other feedback would be nice too though.

Anyways, I've had my current suspension setup for quite some time now, probably around 3 years now? I started out with the Eibach Pro-kit, KYB GR-2, added the TRD RSB and TRD strut bar with 225/40/18 Ecsta SPT's and I'm really impressed with the cornering. However, I'm looking to stiffen it up even more and I had always been set on a full coilover setup like Tein, JIC, Ksport, etc.

After doing some research and considering that my car is primarily a daily driver on poorly maintained roads, I concluded that maybe the Eibach Ground Control sleeves and Tokico Blue struts with LifeTime warranty would be the best setup for me. Reason being is that I'm fine with spending ~$500 for a nice set of used coilovers, but I want to avoid the hassle/money with getting them shipped/replaced for about $250 or so each. In other words, I want something that will be affordable and will last.

With the GC/Tokico's, I would probably lower it so the front tires are tucking, and maybe a finger gap in the rear for a raked look. I'm just wondering what spring rates you guys are running and what you would recommend. I called GC up and the guy said to not exceed 500lbs in the front, and 300 lbs in the rear. I read that any ride height reduction past 1.5" and higher the spring rate would contribute to wearing out any strut, especially since there's nothing stiff for the Gen4 Camry's like Koni Yellows.

So with that said, here are some of my questions. How long do you think the Tokico Blue's would last? Do you think I could purchase them from a local dealer and use the Lifetime Warranty as needed under regular driving? I think Gibson99 mentioned that warranty wasn't that great because of the amount of time the entire replacement process takes. Also, how much stiffer are they than the KYB GR-2's? How would the ride quality be with slightly softer springs than 500lbs in the front, and 300lbs in the rear? Ride quality meaning stiffness, rebound, etc. For instance, if you go over bump, would the car keep bouncing up and down until it finally settles or does it feel like the Tokico's have good damping? If you have any pics of your setups, please post them. I'm curious to see how much adjustability there is since the advertised 0"-3" is just a rough estimate. Thanks!

Oh, and any link to Tokico's with Lifetime warranty would much be appreciated. I've seen some on eBay for about $400 or so, but I'm assuming that they wouldn't come with or be covered by Tokico's Lifetime warranty, as most sellers are not authorized dealers.

[DxElite]

I've contacted Tokico about their warranty a few months back through email:

1st Message:
Could I get a copy (digital or paper) of the warranty details for Tokico HP struts? I am doing research before I make my purchase. Your website does not have the warranty details and I would like to get it from the source. Thank you.

RE:
Thank you for contacting Tokico Performance Shocks. You have a very legitimate question. Due to our OE standards and quality, our defect and warranty rate is very low. Many times, product failure is actually due to installation error. However, in the event that it is a manufacturers defect, we will cover your part under warranty. You just need proof of purchase (because we only cover the original purchaser) and you need to handle the transaction with your seller. I've approved warranty for a customer who's shocks failed after 16 years! He had his receipt, and we took are of it, simple as that. If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me.

Best regards,
David


http://www.hitachi-hap-la.com/Tokico...faq/index.html


2nd message:
I have another question about the warranty for Tokico struts. What is the policy for struts purchased from an ebay seller? Some brands/manufacturers will not cover products purchased through auction sites under warranty policy.

RE:
The warranty is no different. As long as it's sold as new, and you are the original buyer, you can still take it up with the ebay seller. If they do not handle the transaction for you, please let me know.

Best regards,
David

David Chou
HITACHI Automotive Products (USA), Inc.
TOKICO PERFORMANCE SHOCKS
475 Alaska Ave.
Torrance, CA 90503
P: 310-212-0234
F: 310-212-0222
Web: www.hitachi-hap-la.com/TokicoGasShocks

---

Also contacted a local dealer about the warranty:


Message:
I am looking into buying a set of Tokico struts and I am currently looking at the warranty details. I am a local buyer and would prefer a quick exchange in person rather than mailing it off to Tokico and waiting a few weeks before getting a replacement.
I see on your site that the process to claim warranty, one can return the part to "any dealer participating in Tokico's warranty program." Is your store a participating dealer in the warranty program? If you are and one wanted to claim warranty in person at your store, what is the process and how long does it usually take?

RE:
Yes, we handle Tokico shocks. Normally, if the shock is visibly leaking fluid or has some other warrantable defect, then we will just do an exchange. If its a question of "it just doesn't ride right anymore" then, we send it to Tokico for inspection/testing. You MUST have proof of original purchase to make a warranty claim. Therefore, if you buy a set from us or any other Tokico dealer, if one piece goes bad, you can submit proof that you are the original purchaser of the shock. Secondhand shocks, ie they are on a car you buy, are not covered any more by warranty.

-----

So it appears that as long as you buy it new and you are the original buyer with proof, the warranty is covered through Tokico regardless of who you buy from.

[bigbird]

as they said, i wouldnt go over 500 with teh tokicos, their bound/rebound rate is pretty good but NOTHING compared to a set of coilovers which are valved based on the spring rate. If possible, contact tokico and ask what the optimal spring rate is for their struts. worse case scinario, they just dont know.

['_']

Originally Posted by DxElite

I've contacted Tokico about their warranty a few months back through email...

That almost sounds too good to be true haha. Well regardless if I get GC's or not, I'm convinced and I'll definitely pick up a set of Tokico's as replacements for my GR-2's. Thanks for posting the messages and doing all that research. Good to hear that they're based in Torrance which isn't too far from me

Originally Posted by bigbird

as they said, i wouldnt go over 500 with teh tokicos, their bound/rebound rate is pretty good but NOTHING compared to a set of coilovers which are valved based on the spring rate. If possible, contact tokico and ask what the optimal spring rate is for their struts. worse case scinario, they just dont know.

I understand that the Blue's aren't the best struts for GC's as most people would recommend something stiffer/adjustable like Koni or AGX, but that is one of the few option for our cars. What I don't understand is how the higher spring rate would cause the strut to blow out prematurely? Shouldn't a higher spring rate reduce the amount of rebound/compression which would help to minimize compression/rebound of the strut? I thought that slamming the car down would be the primary factor of causing a strut to go out since it's always compressed. I guess I'm missing something. But anyways, since the Tokico's are covered with Lifetime warranty, theoretically I could get away with replacing each one whenever they blow out.

[PhatRoyale]

My buddy had this exact setup on his Corolla... lasted around 4 years IIRC.

Was a bit underdampened but still rode pretty smooth, he was pretty much slammed for daily driving.

no wheelgap.

['_']

Originally Posted by PhatRoyale

My buddy had this exact setup on his Corolla... lasted around 4 years IIRC.

Was a bit underdampened but still rode pretty smooth, he was pretty much slammed for daily driving.

no wheelgap.

So the Blue's held up that long while he was driving around slammed? Sounds pretty good except for the underdampening part. I don't mind a stiff ride, just worried about the continuous bouncing over bumps and stuff. I saw this from another thread, and this would be nice except for all the work required to do it:

http://www.9500rpm.com/probe/project14.html

[bigbird]

Originally Posted by '_'

I understand that the Blue's aren't the best struts for GC's as most people would recommend something stiffer/adjustable like Koni or AGX, but that is one of the few option for our cars. What I don't understand is how the higher spring rate would cause the strut to blow out prematurely? Shouldn't a higher spring rate reduce the amount of rebound/compression which would help to minimize compression/rebound of the strut? I thought that slamming the car down would be the primary factor of causing a strut to go out since it's always compressed. I guess I'm missing something.

they wont...the extreme ride hight possible will blow them out as you suspect. the soft rebound rates of the blues will cause bouncing if the springs are too stiff because they wont be able to compensate for the stiffness. this may have a bad effect on the struts but not as much as the ride height. ever see what a car with blown coilovers or miss match spring rates looks like when drigving ---____--_--_--_--__--__.

['_']

Originally Posted by bigbird

they wont...the extreme ride hight possible will blow them out as you suspect. the soft rebound rates of the blues will cause bouncing if the springs are too stiff because they wont be able to compensate for the stiffness. this may have a bad effect on the struts but not as much as the ride height. ever see what a car with blown coilovers or miss match spring rates looks like when drigving ---____--_--_--_--__--__.

Ah ok, that makes more sense. So going back to spring rates, how would you compare spring rates of these (ie. 500 lbs or 300lbs) vs. coilovers that are measured as (ie. 9kg or 6kg)? Which would be stiffer (without considering the damping of the shock)? And what exactly do the numbers mean? Would it be the amount of force required to compress the spring 1 inch?

[bigbird]

yes it would lb/1 inch. but as is mentoned, id ask tokico what spring rates work best with their shocks. they should know and youll be better able to get springs with the correctish rate.

[t3chnique]

Dang it. I know you want coilovers. Just hold out till your KYBs blow. I know you want to pick up those GC sleeves local because they're "cheap", don't do it!!!

['_']

Well it's not really because they're cheap. I'm looking for something that will last yet provide more adjustability and a stiffer/firmer ride. It should be roughly $300 for the GC's and about $350-450 for Tokico Blue's which should come out to approximately $700. The benefits would be Lifetime warranty on the Tokico's and adjustable ride height. On the other hand, I'm looking at two different sets of coilovers, heavily used JIC FLT-A2's and almost brand new ISC's for $750 (no one has heard of ISC).

As of now, I'm stuck between GC +Tokico and coilovers. The coilovers would be nice, except for the fact that JIC's are known to blow out and the cost of replacing individual coilovers can cost about $250. The ISC's are nice except for the fact that no one has really heard of them. In the end, both should come out to roughly the same price but the coilovers may be expensive to maintain in the long run. That's the dilemma.

Also, would a 500lb spring be stiffer or softer than a 9kg spring? Tokico said that the Blue's can handle any spring rate that's 10-15% stiffer than stock.

[bigbird]

according to conversion, 500lb spring would be a 230ish kg. the way they measure these things is still something im trying to grasp and its a bitch that they dont all use kg, but a 9kg would be far stiffer then 10-15% of stock.

the other thing to consider with coilovers is the removal of anoying pieces of the suspension that seem to fail a lot on these cars.... I.E. strut mounts. i LOVE not having to deal with thoes things anymore...and the camber adjustment is great. the ISCs should be highquality but what would scare me off is finding replamnet parts for them if they are not a big company. something like Tein or K-sport would be cheaper to build. K-sports are 100/ea front and like 150 for both rears. personally i dont know enough people with sucess stories to with CGs to take them over coilovers.

['_']

I was looking at some website and I think I recall 500lbs/300lbs to be roughly the same as 9kg/6kg respectively. I also read that a popular setup with other cars were the CG matched with Koni yellows, or any other adjustable shock. Due to the adjustable damping, some people even said that they could outperform coilovers on the track. I also found out that there are different types of coilovers for different purposes. For instance, some coilovers are designed with slamming in mind rather than performance. Others don't allow you to lower the car as much but are great for performance.

That's a good point you brought up regarding the need for less suspension components with a coilover setup. My friend suggested AMR coilovers which would be covered with Lifetime warranty. Only problem is that they're still out of my budget; I think around $1200 or so.

[.Camryman97.]

ive had my gc for about 3 months now and i love it... i wanted to go for the tucked look like you but i cant achieve it because the lower spring perch gets in the way of letting the spring spinning any lower i got about 1 finger in the front and 1 in the back but i have 17" wheels and i think you have 18's right. so you might be able to tuck. imo if you want to go slammed i would get coilovers... for me i couldnt afford them and i just wanted to go lower so this was my only choice

when i ordered from ground control i told them that this was strictly street use and that i wouldnt be racing it so i think they gave me 500lb front and 300lb rear and the ride is not bad at all. its definitely stiffer because of the linear spring but some of my friends who drive slammed, dumpt daily said the ride is very smooth for coilovers. and as stiff goes its like your in a seesaw and not bouncy stiff... at night you'll see your lights move a lot but you dont really feel it

now im friends with gibson99 and he installed the suspension for me and its very easy to install and when i talked to him about lastability of this setup he said that the setup on his car had been good for about 6-7 years now i dont know what ride height that was at

my struts were 2 years old when i put the gc's on so we'll see how long they last on the lowest setting because we all know that struts will not last as long when they are more compressed

i really wish we had koni yellows because the koni/ GC setup is one of the best you can get espescially when you ride slammed or dumpt

this is one of my buddy's who has a koni gc setup... up until about a week ago this was his daily for years and the setup is amazingly smooth

[PhatRoyale]

Originally Posted by bigbird

according to conversion, 500lb spring would be a 230ish kg. the way they measure these things is still something im trying to grasp and its a bitch that they dont all use kg, but a 9kg would be far stiffer then 10-15% of stock.

Your math is way off.... the correct conversion between lb/in to kg/mm is divide by a factor of approximately 56.

1kg/mm = 56 lb/in

So applying this to this post...

Originally Posted by '_'

I was looking at some website and I think I recall 500lbs/300lbs to be roughly the same as 9kg/6kg respectively. I also read that a popular setup with other cars were the CG matched with Koni yellows, or any other adjustable shock. Due to the adjustable damping, some people even said that they could outperform coilovers on the track. I also found out that there are different types of coilovers for different purposes. For instance, some coilovers are designed with slamming in mind rather than performance. Others don't allow you to lower the car as much but are great for performance.

That's a good point you brought up regarding the need for less suspension components with a coilover setup. My friend suggested AMR coilovers which would be covered with Lifetime warranty. Only problem is that they're still out of my budget; I think around $1200 or so.

500/56 = 8.92--> Approximately 9kg/mm
300/56 = 5.35--> Approximately 5kg/mm

In any event, I suggest that you save up until you have enough for a decent setup.

Or just buy the used JICs and ship them back to head office and get them rebuilt. Depending on the condition and abuse they suffered, you could be looking at $1000+ to rebuild.

Find out the true cost before deciding.