3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.
This thing is gonna get somebody killed.
It runs great most of the time but about 20% ofthe time you wind and wind on the starter before it cranks. It will try to crank shutter and sputter a little and then choke down. When it cranks it runs great but a couple of times it has choked down while idling in traffic. The first time my daughter was driving and it was running really rough till she got to the top of a bridge and then it died altogether. The fuel pump seems to be running cause I smell a little gas after it cranks. It also sprayed all over the place when I changed the fuel filter. There are no error codes on the computer. I tested the IAC and it passed the test. Two mechanics have given up on it. Like I said, most of the time it is fine.
In chasing this problem the car has gotten new wires, cap, rotor, timing belt, and fuel filter. There was a little oil in the timing chain cover so we changed the seals.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help. It's my daughters car and my wife is about to put me out of the house if I don't take care of baby girl.
I highlighted that, because if you feel that way, than you should park it! Its not worth dieing for! Seriously. . . Its not.
So the battery cranks the engine as normal, but the engine doesn't always fire off and idle or run?
Most of the time it's OK, but when it acts up it runs rough and stalls.
To much gas or loading up make black smoke out the tail pipe. Thus, either the plugs are not burning the fuel or there is too much fuel. Another symptom is a hot cat converter. If the Cat is hotter than normal, you'll know by sticking your hand near it. It tries to burn all that raw fuel that the engine threw down the exhaust.
To little gas, it dies, it stumbles off the line, it won't accellerate, it might even backfire, but there is no black smoke out the tail pipe. It may start easily or may forces you to run the starter a bit to "crank the engine over".
With no error codes, you need to figure out which system is at fault. You've done the basic with the ignition. Did those guys ever put it on a scope and look at the ignition? Have you ever ran (hood up) in the dark (real dark) and looked over the whole ignition system for stray sparks? Might be worth a try. Look at the coil while in the very dark of night and tell me what you see.
My first guess is its got too much gas or no spark but only some of the time. We need to let others chime in on this.
73,
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95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
Thanks so much for the advice.
I have 3 days here and I really need to find this problem. I looked for stray sparks and didn't see anything. The coil is built in the distributor so the only thing to inspect are the plug wires which were new.
The original plugs looked fine. There was nothing obviously wrong with them. I have a buddy that is a mechanic and our original plan was to shotgun the problem and change everything. As far as I can tell nothing has changed.
I would love to have fuel pressure results. I have had some trouble finding sombody that had the correct fittings for the Camry. There is nothing no fitting on the fue rail and I played hell getting the top fitting on the fuel filter to stop leaking when I changed it. I took it to one shop and it turned out they didn't have the fitting either. They kept it for a couple of days and never could reproduce the problem.
I'm gonna clean the throttle body tomorrow and try to find some way to check the fuel pressure. I also need to get a timing light to see if this is electrical.
I'll post results. If anybody has more ideas they will be appreciated.
Thanks again
I think I found a way to make the problem happen. I'll have to try it a couple of times to be sure but I took it for a drive this morning. We live in a town that is usually swamped with traffic so you put around most of the time. I got on some back roads and started doing rapid accelerations. I still couldn't go fast but I romped down on it a little and the problem appeared. After just a couple of thesze cycles the car would shutter and go dead at idle. It didn't want to restart. I brought it to the house and it was cranking okay so I romped down on it a little (nothing crazy) and the problem came again. When you give it gas it lopes before it takes the command. It sounds exactly like what 73sport described as not enough fuel. I jumpered the fuel pump relay to make sure it was running and nothing changed. I put a timing light on it and there was fire.
I'm thinking clogged up or worn out fuel pump right now.
I am looking for sea foam in a spray. The only other throttle body cleaners I saw had too many warnings about colateral damage to use.
FYI:
just because plugs look fine, they can still misfire under the load of the compression stroke. This condition is much more likely on over carbuerated non-fuel injected engines that are routinely given more fuel than they can burn.
I'd replace the plugs even if they don't look fouled. Have you ever pulled them and found the to look wet with anything. Oil or fuel like?
As for your new findings. It sounds a fuel volume and pressure test are needed. Does the condition vary by how much fuel is in the tank?
It could be the sock is plugged up on the fuel pickup inlet in the tanl, but I'd expect it to idle fine once running and die after higher RPM runs as it runs out of fuel until the system can get caught up.
Note: an engine running lean will run hotter than usual. This may self propagtes to fuel vapor lock problem with a weak or strained fuel delivery system.
__________________
95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
I think I found a way to make the problem happen. I'll have to try it a couple of times to be sure but I took it for a drive this morning. We live in a town that is usually swamped with traffic so you put around most of the time. I got on some back roads and started doing rapid accelerations. I still couldn't go fast but I romped down on it a little and the problem appeared. After just a couple of thesze cycles the car would shutter and go dead at idle. It didn't want to restart. I brought it to the house and it was cranking okay so I romped down on it a little (nothing crazy) and the problem came again. When you give it gas it lopes before it takes the command. It sounds exactly like what 73sport described as not enough fuel. I jumpered the fuel pump relay to make sure it was running and nothing changed. I put a timing light on it and there was fire.
I'm thinking clogged up or worn out fuel pump right now.
I am looking for sea foam in a spray. The only other throttle body cleaners I saw had too many warnings about colateral damage to use.
Just to confirm, the problem rears it's head when you tromp down, not when you've been tromping down and suddenly let up?
You stomp the gas. The car hesitates for a second or tow and then revs. When you release the gas it will barely idle. It shutters and most of the time it goes dead. If you add a little pedal it smooths out but usually shutters some more. If you pu it in gear at idle it dies. Then it is hard to crank
Happened more then once. Both times cured by using up the entire bad tank and then changing the fuel filter. Different engine, it was a 22re, but similar symptoms.
Pete
Good point. Water in the fuel does bad things. The good news is you can test for this and it won't cost you anything.
Sometime after it dies in the driveway. Remove the fuel filter save every drop into a clear container. Dump the rest in and see what settles to the bottom. Water is heavier than gas in this case and a good load of H20 can take some time to dissipate.
You never said how it smells when you stnad behind it.
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95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
The starter and battery work incredibly well. It spins up and just doesn't ignite. I've put a lot of miles on this starter studying this problem and it has been hanging in there.
I took it to a shop and we were able to make the problem happen while he was with me. He doesn't think the spark was strong enough. He is going to look at it tomorrow. He has also gottn a fitting to check the fuel pressure.
Here we go again,
The shop said they couldn't make the problem happen once the car cranked and they drove it in the bay. One mechanic had handed the job off to another and I don't think he realized that you could cause the problem by putting the engine under more demand. He thought the problem was heat related and was letting it idle all morning. The shop seems to think it is the distributor or crank position sensor.
Will somebody point me to some diagnostics to determine where the spark is being lost?
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