Massive oil leak all over back of engine - Help

[jazsun]

Hello, new member - I apologize for the length but its a real pain of a problem. Thanks for any help.

It's a 96 w/ about 85k on it, w/ the 2.2L 5S-FE and auto tranny. We've been trying to trace down multiple oil leaks. It leaks when running and sitting. If it sits overnight you will get two separate splatters a good 3-4 inches in diameter. One is closer to the passenger side which appears to be coming from the timing cover area, and the other is right in the middle. It looks as if the rear-main seal would be leaking but oil can be seen dripping off area higher up, such as the bolts which are used to bolt the intake to the back of the heads. Drips of oil can also be seen around the entire area where the head bolts to the block and everything below that.

We recently discovered the oil sending unit was leaking bad, so we replaced it and that cut back on some of the oil but it's definitely still leaking in one or two other spots (like I said, in the center of the engine and passengers side). I witnessed oil dripping from the timing cover so I believe that solves that portion of the leak. What is puzzling is the leak in the middle.

I'm unfamiliar w/ Camry's but w/ my experiences w/ LT1/LS1 intake manifolds can seap oil around the gasket but this appears to be A LOT of running oil. It leaks so bad you can smell oil the entire time while driving and you must drive w/ the windows open because whatever is leaking from the top/rear of the engine is dropping onto the exhaust. If you park for a period of time, when you return there will be a good 4-6 drops on the ground. I would think that an intake manifold leak would seap and not drip oil this bad. Is it possible for a Camry intake manifold to leak this bad?

Note: I have checked the distributor for any O-ring leakage and there appears to be no oil around that area.

In conclusion their is oil all over the rear of the motor starting by the bolts (you can see drips on the bolts) holding the intake manifold to the head and everything below that is wet.

What are common areas in the rear of the engine which would produce this much oil on these engines? Is their Oil lines that run in the back?

Oil is not coming from:
+ The oil pan
+ Distributor O-ring
+ Oil filter plumbings at the front of the motor
+ Valve Cover (replaced gasket)

[BLUEMEANIE]

The rear main is a common massive leak on the 5sfe. If you had that much oil in the intake manifold you'd have other issues to worry about. Pressure could be forcing it out thru the top and blow back could be soaking the rear half. My advice would be to wash it clean then run the motor for a while and see where its coming from. If its leaking as bad as you say, it shouldn't take long once its warm. The smell is just the residual oil burning off.

[Michael503]

I've owned a 94 camry for about 12 years now. I have replaced every seal on this engine, some of them twice. ALL of the rubber on this motor gets hard pretty quick.

Judging from the puddle sizes. I'd bet on seals. A big leak is easy to spot. tracing small seeps requires a freshly cleaned motor, and some baby powder sprinkled on the suspected area.

Heres the list"

Pass side... oil pump seal, cam sprocket seal, front main seal, valve cover gasket. The timing belt has to be removed, but all can be done without doing more than that. The oil pump shaft may be grooved. The most likely culprit is the front main.

Drivers side/ center... rear main seal, distributor (pull the cap and look for oil), valve cover gasket. Most likely, the rear main.

The motor and tranny need to separate to do the rear main. Sams sells an engine hoist for 200 bucks and works pretty well. You can buy a hoist and do the work for less than half what a shop charges and you get this really neat hoist as a keepsake!

The dizzy seal is unfortunately not available separately from the dizzy.

valve covers gaskets get hard and shrink, but you got that one. and lastly, the oil fill cap gasket gets hard too.



I've felt your pain.

[hill8570]

I don't think I've ever seen an intake manifold on a 5S-FE leak oil. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it's gotta be rare.

Passenger side is classic. Usually the oil pump o-ring, but if you're going to go in there, might as well replace the crankshaft seal, camshaft seal, oil pump o-ring, and o-pump shaft seal. If the oil pump shaft is really worn, might need to replace the whole oil pump since a new shaft seal won't seal well in that case. If the timing belt and water pump are coming up for replacement, might as well replace those two while you're in there.

The other side is a tougher call. Rear main is the only thing over there that tend to leak big drips. Not sure if wind could blow it back to the point where you're seeing it (oil has a tendency to crawl around, but that's a pretty big crawl). I'd vote with Bluemeanie, and spray a couple of cans of engine brite (or whatever) back in that area and clean off any residual oil, and take a look a bit later. There's also a fluorescent dye you can add to your oil -- that and a little blacklight flashlight can help trace a leak. I've had mixed results with it -- it just doesn't glow all that brightly.

[jazsun]

Interesting points, thanks for the advise so far.

We've wiped down the back of the motor pretty good when it was on ramps and proceeded to run it for a while, the only real noticeable leak was the rear-main but it was somewhat hard to tell if something up top was leaking down and collecting at the bottom where the transmission dust cover is (since you can only see so much). I'm not sure exactly it's called on the Camry's, but it's the black cover that's bolted to the transmission where it mates w/ the crank/block). It appears that only after driving does the oil appear to be coming from the top (intake manifold bolt area & head gasket area). Is it possible that a rear-main seal would splatter up that high or do you think it's more likely there's another leak up there?

From what you guys have mentioned it appears that the only thing that would leak this bad in the rear (bottom or top) of the engine is the rear-main seal?

When we have time I think I may pull the distributor cap off and look for oil inside just in case, since it appears that's really one of the last places to leak much this high up.

[jazsun]

Originally Posted by Michael503

The motor and tranny need to separate to do the rear main. Sams sells an engine hoist for 200 bucks and works pretty well. You can buy a hoist and do the work for less than half what a shop charges and you get this really neat hoist as a keepsake!

I've done a rear-main seal on a 96 Formula before but obviously the transmission is in the center of the car to accommodate rwd. Is it very difficult to perform this fix on these cars considering the trans axle? I assume the engine hoist is needed to hold the engine up in the bay after unbolting the mounts?

Curious, how much would a shop charge for a rear-main seal job $600-$800?

[Michael503]

Originally Posted by jazsun

I've done a rear-main seal on a 96 Formula before but obviously the transmission is in the center of the car to accommodate rwd. Is it very difficult to perform this fix on these cars considering the trans axle? I assume the engine hoist is needed to hold the engine up in the bay after unbolting the mounts?

Curious, how much would a shop charge for a rear-main seal job $600-$800?

The dealer quoted me a grand, 5 years ago. labor was about 60 an hour.

The engine hoist is to remove the engine/transaxle assy from the car so you can separate them. It might be possible to get the tranny out by itself, but I doubt it. Even so, it would need to come out the bottom and without a lift, its not happening safely.

[Retrospekt]

The rear main is a pain. You have to either lift the engine or drop the trans. My mechanic decided to lift the engine because he didn't have access to a good lift in his garage. He charged me 500 bucks. (Part was cheap)

[Novice_cardude]

honestly it sounds like your valve cover gasket is still leaking. When i first got my camry I replaced the VC gasket. a few months later it was leaking again. It confused me because I was certain it was coming from the intake as well. I had used a Napa part, and i don't know how much that had to do with it.

Here recently when i did every other seal on that motor, I replaced the VC gasket with a Toyota part, as well as the spark plug tube seal grommet things. Those can get weak, and as they are the only things holding tension on the VC, they can let it pop up and start leaking again.

This time I also unscrewed the spark plug tubes and resealed the base of them , and cleaned the cylinder head where the VC gasket meets really well. Also popped out the half moons and resealed them. I wanted to be damn sure that thing wasn't going to leak for another ... well, 10,000 miles at least.

Another thing that makes the VC gasket leak copious amounts is the engine lean. The oil literally pools and splashes against that back edge the whole time you drive, then doesn't drain too quick, so it has a lot of time to work through that gasket.

As for the rear main, I haven't done mine yet. Several people here have done clutches with a engine hoist, basic tools and some beer. The engine compartment is roomy enough with a 4cyl that you have several options for how to do that.

And a shop that charges $60/hr really should only be charging $600 labor for the rear main job ... and that's on the V6 engine. Must have been something else in that quote to push it up to a grand. whew.

[flyeri]

Coming from the timing cover may be oil pump. I had that fixed and had the same thing with oil covering the back of the engine. I replaced cam seal, disttibuter o-ring, and valve cover gasket. There was a little oil coming from all three. It took several weeks to figure all this out. If I had another engine wet on the back side I would replace all three at once. The parts are not expensive and not terrribly hard to do.