I'm so upset at my A/C system!

[96ToyoCam164K]

Today, I'm thinking I needed some Freon to put inside my A/C since it stopped getting cold a couple months ago.

Well low and behold, I spend $45 at a local car shop to put it in...only for it to go back out immediately

The reason why Im so upset is because in 2008, I spent about $700 replacing the compressor, evaporator, and a cracked hose. Then $100 on a broken compressor bolt (from the compressor not being on tight enough). Then later on, $150 on the dryer. And now, there's another leak under the dashboard

Im so upset, that Im thinking about going in myself and ripping the dashboard apart (including the steering wheel) to find out what the hell it is. It makes no sense to have had all this work done only for something else to be going wrong. And summer in Texas is not fun

Is there any diagram...you would recommend to help me do the job? I'm also upset at the mechanic shop for not doing the work properly. When I told them about the compressor bolt...the guy yelled at me saying that he had nothing to do with it.

I keep putting money into my A/C system and it works great for 5-6 months and then something else pops up and Im tired of it.

[96ToyoCam164K]

I have to ask also...who would you recommend going to for good A/C work in the event I back out on this job LOL.

This is not a new issue. I had a n '87 Buick awhile ago...and mechanics did the same thing, fixed 1 thing and something else would pop up. When I sold it, it still had no A/C and that was a hell of a summer in Florida...ugh!

I didnt expect this because I assumed I replaced the entire A/C system. I dont know if its even the mechanic's fault though. But I would prefer to have someone who's going to know what they are doing...because everytime they take apart the dashboard...thats an entire day's worth of work.

But this time, I wanna do it myself.

[hill8570]

Steering wheel? Dashboard?

Unless things changed massively between the '95 and '96 model year, everything having to do with the A/C in the passenger compartment is done from under the dash and with the glove box removed -- no need to pull anything else.

If you're leaking, you need to find out where -- there are a number of fittings that can leak out. Go to Wally World or an auto parts shop, and buy a few cans of R-134 refrigerant with UV dye and a refill fitting. Hit ebay for an blacklight flashlight (you might be able to find one locally). Refill the system and when it leaks out go on a glow hunt.

[Stillrunning]

Originally Posted by 96ToyoCam164K

The reason why Im so upset is because in 2008, I spent about $700 replacing the compressor, evaporator, and a cracked hose. Then $100 on a broken compressor bolt (from the compressor not being on tight enough). Then later on, $150 on the dryer. And now, there's another leak under the dashboard

Could just be an o-ring leak at the evaporator. Did the mechanic say it was at the evaporator? It's easy to tell with a sniffer. For all the expensive work you did the o-rings should have been replaced for all the connections when the work was done. There should be just two connections under the dash at the evaporator. If you can get to them then re-charge the system and use a soap solution to look for bubbles at the connections, that works better then dye. You might as well test for pinhole leak in lines while you're there as well. I've learned that at least in Florida A/C work is largely a huge rip off.

[camry6]

I was so tired of spending money at a shop that (I know now for sure) didn't have a clue what they were doing, I actually enrolled in the Refrigeration and Air conditioning apprentice program 5 years ago and got my Journey person certification just a month ago. (I'm not joking) I fixed my own A/C (wright) in my Camry 4 years ago, and it is still working ever since. Are you sure the leak is inside your dash (evaporator) What leads you to believe this? Did you get a fog or vapor inside your car? I can help you troubleshoot, but I need to know the situation. Dry nitrogen is the proper gas to use for pressure testing and leak finding. Do not use air, as it contains moisture and will saturate your drier and oil. PAG oil used in automotive applications with R-134a is HIGHLY hygroscopic and attracts moisture big time. Moisture in your oil will turn to acid when the system operates, which in turn will shorten seal and component life. Do not exceed 200 PSI on your system when using nitrogen as higher pressure will possibly blow the relief valve (which will likely not re-seal properly) or blow seals in the system. R-134a runs at approx. 140 PSI head pressure when operating +/- PSI depending on outside air temperature (the higher the temperature, the higher the condensing pressure). Give me the details of your complete history of A/C work done and your latest situation.

[xtremeskier97]

There are 2 connections, but 4 orings under the dash. 2 o-rings where the lines connect to the evaporator (one high and one low side) and 2 orings at the firewall where those same 2 low and high side hoses are. When mine was leaked out, I took apart EVERY connection, replaced ALL the o-rings, replaced the drier, removed the evaporator and blew out the fins, and put it all back together. This was at the same time I already had the dash out fixing some vent issues, so it was a LOT easier to see everything under there.

[ArmyRangerSean]

if you check out **********s.com/camry they have a camry factory manual in pdf that shows you all the diagrams and how to dissasemble/reassemble everything on the car. I know how you feel man my 93 camry is only blowing outta the defroster vents so I gotta figure out whats stuck where and why it won't change when i hit the knob.

[96ToyoCam164K]

Originally Posted by Stillrunning

I've learned that at least in Florida A/C work is largely a huge rip off.

No shit...1 week after I bought this same Camry, the A/C 'exploded' when I got off the highway and white vapor just engulfed the inside of the car.

After that, turns out it was the evaporator (probably since the car sat so long without the A/C being turned out...killed the system).
I went almost a year without A/C before I finally got it looked at.

Originally Posted by camry6

Give me the details of your complete history of A/C work done and your latest situation.

I had a rebuilt compressor put it...and it seems to be running fine. That was at about 150K and now Im at like 182K. During that same time, I had the evaporator core replaced as well. I got a glimpse of the work and I had seen that the entire dashboard of the car was removed, including the steering wheel.

At the same time, apparently he found a crack in a hose while (the mechanic) was doing the work...and they charged me an extra $100 for that. This all happened in like August 2008.

After that, I didnt need anymore work until 5 months later when it stopped blowing cold. So I got a recharge and they said there was no leaks as it was still holding pressure.

Then, around February last year it stopped blowing cold again. Went to another place and he changed the drier because the other place hadn't. He still said there were no leaks because it was "holding pressure".

After that, It stopped blowing cold again in last Novemeber, and at that point I gave up cause winter was here.

Fast forward to last weekend

As he was putting the freon in, white vapor was blowing out of the driver's side vent only...and it also was vaporizing white from the outside dashboard area as well. It got cold for about 1 minute, and went away almost instantly.

[hill8570]

^
Well, at least it won't be hard to narrow down where to start replacing the o-rings . Assuming it is the o-rings, and you don't have a pinhole in one of the hard lines.

Wonder if any of these jokers bothered to top off the PAG while they were replacing parts? Need that oil to keep the compressor lubed and to keep the o-rings from drying out.

If you want to do this sort of work yourself, hit Harbor Freight up for a manifold gauge set ( http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92649 ) and a vacuum pump ( http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=98076 ). With those two items, and plenty of patience, you can diagnose and fix pretty much anything on an R-134 system. Or you can usually get one or both as loaner tools from Autozone or the like.

BTW, I hate to be pedantic, but you don't have "freon", which is R-12 refrigerant -- you've got R-134. Good thing, too -- it's a royal b*tch to do shade-tree work on R-12 systems these days.

[96ToyoCam164K]

Originally Posted by hill8570

^
Wonder if any of these jokers bothered to top off the PAG while they were replacing parts?

BTW, I hate to be pedantic, but you don't have "freon", which is R-12 refrigerant -- you've got R-134.

The time I got the drier replaced was the only time when someone mentioned adding oil, saying the system was 'dry'.

I didnt even mention, I went over to another shop down the street...a tire/car repair shop and can you believe they told me they couldn't use R-134 and that my car needed R-12, and they couldn't do it cause they needed a license?

Mechanics scare me these days. So I went to the place I used to go to, and they used R-134, just as it has been done all the other times

This is exactly WHY I need Toyota nation and learn about these things myself.

Originally Posted by pgmomni

Turn it on once a month during the winter AND always turn it on/off at low RPM.

LOL

I always turned my A/C off before starting the car, simply to be easier on the battery/engine.



I would also use it occasionally during winter to keep the windows from fogging up.

[camry6]

Originally Posted by hill8570

^
Well, at least it won't be hard to narrow down where to start replacing the o-rings . Assuming it is the o-rings, and you don't have a pinhole in one of the hard lines.

Wonder if any of these jokers bothered to top off the PAG while they were replacing parts? Need that oil to keep the compressor lubed and to keep the o-rings from drying out.

If you want to do this sort of work yourself, hit Harbor Freight up for a manifold gauge set ( http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92649 ) and a vacuum pump ( http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=98076 ). With those two items, and plenty of patience, you can diagnose and fix pretty much anything on an R-134 system. Or you can usually get one or both as loaner tools from Autozone or the like.

BTW, I hate to be pedantic, but you don't have "freon", which is R-12 refrigerant -- you've got R-134. Good thing, too -- it's a royal b*tch to do shade-tree work on R-12 systems these days.

Freon is a trade name by DuPont. The name Freon was generalized to mean R-12, but actually any refrigerant by DuPont was Freon -whatever-. Example: Freon 12, Freon 22, Freon 500 etc. This word Freon only told the consumer that the refrigerant used in the system was manufactured by DuPont. The type of refrigerant was identified by the number. When the whole CFC thing came up, people blamed "Freon" as the culprit. The gas in question was actually R-12 a CFC refrigerant. CFC refrigerants were phased out, and DuPont having a vulgar name "Freon" going around, discreetly changed it to SUVA. Now DuPont refrigerants are called SUVA 134a, SUVA 410a...etc. FREON 22 is still made today. R-22 is a HCFC refrigerant used in some rooftop air conditioners, some low temperature refrigeration systems and some residential A/C systems manufactured prior to 2010. HCFC refrigerants are now being phased out the same way CFC's were a few years ago.

[camry6]

Originally Posted by 96ToyoCam164K

No shit...1 week after I bought this same Camry, the A/C 'exploded' when I got off the highway and white vapor just engulfed the inside of the car.

After that, turns out it was the evaporator (probably since the car sat so long without the A/C being turned out...killed the system).
I went almost a year without A/C before I finally got it looked at.





I had a rebuilt compressor put it...and it seems to be running fine. That was at about 150K and now Im at like 182K. During that same time, I had the evaporator core replaced as well. I got a glimpse of the work and I had seen that the entire dashboard of the car was removed, including the steering wheel.

At the same time, apparently he found a crack in a hose while (the mechanic) was doing the work...and they charged me an extra $100 for that. This all happened in like August 2008.

After that, I didnt need anymore work until 5 months later when it stopped blowing cold. So I got a recharge and they said there was no leaks as it was still holding pressure.

Then, around February last year it stopped blowing cold again. Went to another place and he changed the drier because the other place hadn't. He still said there were no leaks because it was "holding pressure".

After that, It stopped blowing cold again in last Novemeber, and at that point I gave up cause winter was here.

Fast forward to last weekend

As he was putting the freon in, white vapor was blowing out of the driver's side vent only...and it also was vaporizing white from the outside dashboard area as well. It got cold for about 1 minute, and went away almost instantly.

You definetly have a leak. It was leaking under the hood, behind the engine area? It is possible that the leak is at the connections where the A/C lines connect at the firewall, behind the engine. There are two lines there. one larger than the other. The large line is the vapor suction line, the smaller one is the liquid line. Because you had a white fog spraying out, and you lost the charge almost instantly means that you have a leak on the high pressure liquid line (the smaller pipe) or O-ring connection. If you have a V-6, space to work is very tight. You mentioned that a fog was blowing from your drivers side vent. It is possible that some of the vapor from the leaking refrigerant outside was being pulled in through the air intake by the blower and out your vent, making you think there is a leak inside somewhere. Why was it ONLY coming out the drivers side vent? Likely because it is the fastest way for the air to travel. Liquid refrigerant boils very rapidly at atmospheric pressures. you can see the vapor only while it is boiling or vaporizing. It is pretty well invisable when it has completely boiled to a vapor. It's possible that the saturated vapor (fog) was encountering more warm contact surfaces as it passed through the other ducts and vents, making it invisable as it came through. The drivers side may flow easier giving the vapor less time to boil off completely, so you could still see it. OR you may also have a leak inside as well. Check outside first. Be sure to do a standing pressure test with nitrogen @150-200 psi for at least 24 hours (longer is better). The pressure you put in should remain over this time. you can still drive your car, but make sure you don't turn on your A/C. Nitrogen will not condense in your system and will create a VERY high head pressure. Damage will result! It is a good idea to remove the A/C fuse just in case. Any less wait time cannot gaurantee a leak free system, and you will lose your refrigerant .....again. Good Luck!

[camry6]

Originally Posted by 96ToyoCam164K

The time I got the drier replaced was the only time when someone mentioned adding oil, saying the system was 'dry'.

I didnt even mention, I went over to another shop down the street...a tire/car repair shop and can you believe they told me they couldn't use R-134 and that my car needed R-12, and they couldn't do it cause they needed a license?

Mechanics scare me these days. So I went to the place I used to go to, and they used R-134, just as it has been done all the other times

This is exactly WHY I need Toyota nation and learn about these things myself.





I always turned my A/C off before starting the car, simply to be easier on the battery/engine.



I would also use it occasionally during winter to keep the windows from fogging up.

ALL man-made refrigerants are a controlled substance due to their ozone depleting (ODP) potential and Global warming potential (GWP). It is illegal to intentionally, knowingly vent (this includes adding refrigerant to a system you know is leaking) refrigerants to the atmosphere. It is enforced by the EPA in the USA and by Environment Canada in Canada. The fines are steep and can actually lead to jail time. You have to have a licence to purchase, posses and transport refrigerants. The amount that requires licencing varies province to province, state to state. Here where I am, ANY amount of man-made refrigerant requires a licence. The only refrigerants available here in-store to the public is Red-Teck and Duracool. These aren't man-made refrigerants, they are purified propane- which exists in a natural state- (R-219), and only allowed for use in mobile refrigeration. Some places allow small canisters of man-made refrigerants to be available to the public for servicing automotive. I bet California is not one of them.

[hill8570]

Originally Posted by camry6

Some places allow small canisters of man-made refrigerants to be available to the public for servicing automotive. I bet California is not one of them.

Pretty sure the OP is from Texas, not the Peoples Republic of California. Should have no trouble getting R-134 over the counter there.