Sludge question - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

schumionbike · 04-05-2010, 11:38 PM

I have a 99 four cylinder Camry that have 182 K on it. I remember a while back, when I was changing the PCV valve at 165K, I saw some sludge under neat. Actually, at that time, I didn't know exactly what it was. I just remember that it just kinda chunky but there wasn't too much of it. That PCV valve was the the original pcv valve too which is not good. Now, I don't see any slush whatsoever under neat my oil cap unlike some of the picture I've seen on the internet. I guess my question is without lifting up the valve cover, how do you check the sludge condition of your engine? Is the area under the pcv a good indicator? The oil cap? I haven't yet tried looking through the oil filter socket but is that a good place to look?

I would think that not replacing a PCV valve for such a long period would really help build up sludge but few people mentioned it as preventative maintence. I guess, the good thing going for this car is run mostly on the highway. At the same time though, it was goin on 5-7K OCI for a while. I didn't get it until 165 K either, since then I did the basic tune and has been changing the oil regularly at 3 K OCI. I'm just trying to guess the condition of the engine right now.

***JohnGD*** · 04-06-2010, 12:01 AM

Use a flash light may help. You should only see varnish colored parts at the most.

How about removing the valve cover. You'll need a big socket (Autozone free loaner tool program) and a few dabs of RTV.

$14.19 + ~$7.5 shipping or try a local parts store/dealer:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1814286

Check out www.auto-rx.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by schumionbike

I have a 99 four cylinder Camry that have 182 K on it. I remember a while back, when I was changing the PCV valve at 165K, I saw some sludge under neat. Actually, at that time, I didn't know exactly what it was. I just remember that it just kinda chunky but there wasn't too much of it. That PCV valve was the the original pcv valve too which is not good. Now, I don't see any slush whatsoever under neat my oil cap unlike some of the picture I've seen on the internet. I guess my question is without lifting up the valve cover, how do you check the sludge condition of your engine? Is the area under the pcv a good indicator? The oil cap? I haven't yet tried looking through the oil filter socket but is that a good place to look?

I would think that not replacing a PCV valve for such a long period would really help build up sludge but few people mentioned it as preventative maintence. I guess, the good thing going for this car is run mostly on the highway. At the same time though, it was goin on 5-7K OCI for a while. I didn't get it until 165 K either, since then I did the basic tune and has been changing the oil regularly at 3 K OCI. I'm just trying to guess the condition of the engine right now.

abew330 · 04-06-2010, 12:02 AM

i dont think you can get a good indication of sludge buildup without taking off the valve covers. looking around the PCV or under oil cap i think may give a small idea, but most likely not accurate

what else have you done to the car? how long ago?

hill8570 · 04-06-2010, 12:16 AM

As long as the PCV valve isn't clogged / stuck, there's really no fixed replacement interval. Even then, a flush with a bit of throttle body clean will clean up all but the worst cases.

Filler hole is usually a poor diagnostic for anything other than excessive moisture in the oil (which you're not going to have if you're putting on more than ~20 highway miles at a stretch).

You can get hints by looking in the PCV hole (especially with the grommet out), or the breather hole on the driver's side of the valve cover (assuming it's still there on the '99 models), or the center tube of the oil filter mount.

However, frankly, popping the valve cover is by far the best diagnostic.

schumionbike · 04-06-2010, 12:18 AM

well, around 165 K, I did the PCV valve, spark plugs and wires (the plugs look pretty fresh, not oil or anything on them), fuel filter, air filter, flush out the coolant. Recently(182 K), I had the timing belt and the waterpump replaced and I clean out the throttle body. I've been changing oil on a 3 OCI interval and the last two changes, the cars took in more oil then before. The oil is leaking via the the valve cover at around 1 quart every 3 K. By the time 3 K rolles around, my oil is pretty black: like crude oil black.

As far as removing the valve cover, I don't have much time right now. I'm a law student preparing for BAR exam coming up soon enough

I'm not very experience with working on car so it take me forever. I did the plugs and wire myself and that took me a lot longer than I thought. Yanking those old wires out took the most time. I think the valve cover will have to wait until after the summer at the earliest. I'm in the process of prepairing the car for a 2000 miles road trips though and I don't want any trouble from the engine. Still got to do the ATF, struts, brakes, and tires too.

schumionbike · 04-06-2010, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill8570

As long as the PCV valve isn't clogged / stuck, there's really no fixed replacement interval.

Thanks for the comment. My was pretty clogged up, the grommet broke on me and fell into the hole and I had to fish it out. Think Toyota recommend it change at every 30 K. With such a cheap replacement, they should make people more aware of it. It seem like most most people who aren't into cars have no idea what that is.

***JohnGD*** · 04-06-2010, 12:23 AM

Might want to try gently tightening down the four big nuts around spark plugs tubes. This may help slow down the valve cover leaks for now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by schumionbike

well, around 165 K, I did the PCV valve, spark plugs and wires (the plugs look pretty fresh, not oil or anything on them), fuel filter, air filter, flush out the coolant. Recently(182 K), I had the timing belt and the waterpump replaced and I clean out the throttle body. I've been changing oil on a 3 OCI interval and the last two changes, the cars took in more oil then before. The oil is leaking via the the valve cover at around 1 quart every 3 K. By the time 3 K rolles around, my oil is pretty black: like crude oil black.

As far as removing the valve cover, I don't have much time right now. I'm a law student preparing for BAR exam coming up soon enough

I'm not very experience with working on car so it take me forever. I did the plugs and wire myself and that took me a lot longer than I thought. Yanking those old wires out took the most time. I think the valve cover will have to wait until after the summer at the earliest. I'm in the process of prepairing the car for a 2000 miles road trips though and I don't want any trouble from the engine. Still got to do the ATF, struts, brakes, and tires too.

hill8570 · 04-06-2010, 12:24 AM

^
If you don't have time to play with it, just run a high-quality high-detergent dino oil (such as Castrol GTX) in there, keep up the 3K OCI, and relax...it'll either die on you or it won't.

ghettosled · 04-06-2010, 06:33 AM

you cant just look in underneath the oil cap or PVC port because there is a baffle in the valve cover. like others have said, the only way to truely check is to pop off the valve cover. keep doing normal oil change intervals and as long as there isnt any tapping, ticking or other unnatural noises i would leave it be.

***fenixus*** · 04-06-2010, 11:02 AM

schumionbike, ghettosled is right, by looking "through" PCV or oil filler hole you see only a narrow passageways running horizontally in cover. you can't actually see valves by looking this way, once you open it up and flip the cover up you will see what i mean.

however color of those areas is i think a good indication of general condition of top of cylinder head. mine were getting very dark recently (car was abused with VERY rare OCI by prev owner), and i was always running dino every 3k miles on it, so i started running synthetic (for its cleaning package) like 8 months ago and 2 weeks ago decided to sea foam it (adding to oil filler, tank and brake booster port). after treatment i noticed the area under oil filler hole got brighter (not a lot but some). i had a leaky valve cover gasket anyways so opened it up, also because i had some ticking noise and decided to measure valve clearances.

as per area under oil filter ... well mine looks awful, not sure if it's sludged but it looks VERY dark, much worse than dark brown colored spots in top of cylinder head.

you can see pics of top of cylinder head here if you want (after 1 sea foam treatment):
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...05#post3145305

i will also run auto-rx treatment through it in 5-6 weeks.
for now i want to make a good use of fresh synthetic valvoline, planning to change it early at 2.5k miles anyways.
then planning to return to dino (castrol gtx) oil for warmer months and change it early for all this year. something around 1.5-2k OCI with good filter (OEM, denso or pureone are ones i use).

schumionbike · 04-06-2010, 02:34 PM

Thanks guys. I might follow Fenixus idea and change oil every 2 K. I used Mobil 5000 for 3 times, the last two changes, I've used Castrol GTX and GTX high mileage for the last one. But yeah, the engine is sound pretty smooth (don't know if that mean anything) and I still get about 29 mpg with heavy Houston traffic. Got 37 mpg once going to Dallas, averaging 65 mph.

***fenixus*** · 04-06-2010, 02:51 PM

schumionbike, they say that frequent oil change is the safest engine cleaning method

and my engine also runs smoother and on dino oil, with synthetic inside it is kind of ticking and tapping ...

running sea foam treatment with your mileage might be risky, so better open the valve cover if you plan on going this way, just to be sure there is no surprise waiting to get loose when solvent comes into play.

as JohnGD mentioned, 30mm socket is what you need to remove tube nuts. replacing this gasket is very easy. you will also need a torque wrench operating at low range to re-install them, torque for spark plug tube nuts is 17ft-lbs, you will have to tighten them slowly and gradually putting even stress on all of them (starting from middle ones, then outer ones). i also followed Mike Gerber's advice and did it in 3 passes: 7, 13 and 17ft-lbs gradually.

I admire your MPG

i'm still fighting with my solara so she finally stops drinking so much fuel