Hello, O2 sensor issues

[zdutch1]

I have had a 1993 camry V6 XLE 4T1VK since 2002. (that a CA Vin? I bought it in Oregon but live in CA now, if that matters).
I bought it with 135,000 miles on it and now it has 225,000 and had the engine rebuilt about a year ago.

The car has had cold-blooded issues and its getting worse. Recently the CEL came on, CODE 28 I was told by Pepboys. They recommended both O2 sensor to be replaced, they recommended:
BWD OS1201 $169.39 (which I found cheaper for $65 on Prostock automotive) and
Bosch 12114 $117.69 ($48 new on ebay)

Should I go with those? Dont know about brands being worse or better? I also been reading some posts and noticed there is a 3rd sensor by the firewall? Pepboys didnt tell me that...

Are those ok to use? A coworker got me a Denso 234-4209 (universal for rear) That ok or is the splicing a bad way to go? Also for install issues I read its easier to install the universal because of the plug position? Or splicing not recommended?

CODE 28, should I replace all O2 sensors or is that code only for rear? Or once u replace one, just replace all?

Sorry lots of questions.
Appreciate all the help.

[TrailDust]

Hello, and welcome to Toyota Nation!

Because of the number and type of questions you have let me move your thread over to the Camry forum so the folks there can help you out. As for the code, you might want to use the Camry forum search feature to find a past thread that may cover that issue.

[fenixus]

code 28 is "No. 2 Oxygen Sensor signal. " which doesn't say much exactly. the trouble code list for OBDI contains only 1 more code for "Main oxygen sensor "(21). so logically thinking the "main" would be the upstream sensor while no. 2 will be the rear sensor (downstream).

there should be 2 oxygen sensors on V6 (both upstream, main i guess), sitting in exhaust headers/manifolds on both banks and there is also another o2 sensor (downstream, no.2 i guess) sitting in exhaust pipe after catalytic converter.

i don't know gen3 v6 (is this 1mz-fe engine?), but with your mileage you can replace all o2 sensors if you want (not the cheapest idea though). they usually do not last more than 100-150k miles max. they can become sluggish in response much earlier than that.

I would personally stay away from Bosch products for this car. you can get universal Denso sensors from rockauto.com, they require splicing, but if you feel OK with that then go for it.
I personally preferred the plug and play OE replacement from NTK (NGK group) which i found inexpensive on amazon. you can also find direct OEM Denso replacements on ebay (new) at much cheaper price than from local or online dealers.

you can check factory/OEM part numbers on toyodiy.com after typing VIN of your.
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/

you can check NTK/NGK part numbers using tool on their site:
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/part_finder/index.asp

as per emissions, you may want to look for emissions sticker under hood, it should state which emissions your car complies with. federal upstream o2 sensors are cheaper, california upstream A/F sensors are more expensive.

hope it helps.

[JohnGD]

Bosch makes many sensors and licenses others to make sensors. But they also rebox and sell low-volume sensors from other licensees. I'm not sure why Bosch lists two parts for Calif/Federal, because Denso and NTK dont.

I'd get only Bosch, NTK or Denso. Yeah, some don't seem to like Bosch, but I have no problems with them. Best planar type for those applications, IMO.

BTW, the Bosch 12114 looks like a reboxed Denso to me. You're going to need 2 of these up front (upstream), or two of these:

Denso 234-1057, front:
http://www.densoaftermarket.com/cata...1057&part=o2sn

and one of this in the rear (downstream), Denso 234-4623:
http://www.densoaftermarket.com/cata...4623&part=o2sn

Yes, you can use universal type if you don't mind slicing the old connector. Been there, done that many times with the excellent Bosch planar type sensor 15733 for other models. If Denso 234-1057 is the correct one for the front, then the $29 rockauto price is great!

http://www.densoaftermarket.com
http://www.boschautoparts.com/VehiclePartFinder

Originally Posted by zdutch1

I have had a 1993 camry V6 XLE 4T1VK since 2002. (that a CA Vin? I bought it in Oregon but live in CA now, if that matters).
I bought it with 135,000 miles on it and now it has 225,000 and had the engine rebuilt about a year ago.

The car has had cold-blooded issues and its getting worse. Recently the CEL came on, CODE 28 I was told by Pepboys. They recommended both O2 sensor to be replaced, they recommended:
BWD OS1201 $169.39 (which I found cheaper for $65 on Prostock automotive) and
Bosch 12114 $117.69 ($48 new on ebay)

Should I go with those? Dont know about brands being worse or better? I also been reading some posts and noticed there is a 3rd sensor by the firewall? Pepboys didnt tell me that...

Are those ok to use? A coworker got me a Denso 234-4209 (universal for rear) That ok or is the splicing a bad way to go? Also for install issues I read its easier to install the universal because of the plug position? Or splicing not recommended?

CODE 28, should I replace all O2 sensors or is that code only for rear? Or once u replace one, just replace all?

Sorry lots of questions.
Appreciate all the help.

[RU2CHKN]

I used Denso

[zdutch1]

Thanks JohnGD and Fenixus, those are very detailed answers. I knew I had come to the right place. Been told by friends I was asking too many questions but I was getting too many conflicting and incorrect answers.

My engine is 3VZ-FE I just read under the hood. (LOL, I thought those were the first digits of your VIN...SHHH..lol)

Does that matter what kind it is? Since you asked me if it was a 1MZ-FE? (besides the iron and alum diff)
Also, does 'FE' make it Federal instead of CA emissions? (seems obvious but I might aswell ask eh)

I will go ahead and replace both front sensors and rear too, already bought the Bosch and Denso universal. Gonna assume that mixing name brands isnt that Big 'O Deal?

Oh, no one mentioned the BWD brand part# OS1201? Good/bad/ok? (or just forget about it?)

Thanks again!

Art

[fenixus]

mixing brands is fine until you use same brand for both upstream, difference in brands between upstream vs downstream doesn't matter much. the rear one is usually used for catalytic converter monitoring and has not much to do with fuel trim adjustment commanded by ECU based on upstream sensor readings.

-fe in engine name has nothing to do with emissions. it's just a part of engine code/name, like 4cyl 5s-fe, 6cyl 1mz-fe and so on. there should be information on emissions on same sticker that mentioned the engine "name". if it doesn't say anything about california emission laws then it has to be federal.

i never heard about BWD, but i didn't see much hehe

[zdutch1]

ok this is a strange update I didnt expect.
We couldnt find the heated O2 sensor by the cat. Had to call the dealer and found out it doesnt have one because thats only for CA emissions. This car is Fed & Canada emisions. So it only has 2 upstream 02 sensors and no downstream..(ok slow learner..lol) Should have used toyodiy site huh Finixus lol.

Soo, I have Bosch#12114 Oxygen Sensor - OE Type - Exact Fit - Upstream Sensor w/ California emissions..can I use that one in a Fed emissions engine?

[fenixus]

Originally Posted by zdutch1

ok this is a strange update I didnt expect.
We couldnt find the heated O2 sensor by the cat. Had to call the dealer and found out it doesnt have one because thats only for CA emissions. This car is Fed & Canada emisions. So it only has 2 upstream 02 sensors and no downstream..(ok slow learner..lol) Should have used toyodiy site huh Finixus lol.

Soo, I have Bosch#12114 Oxygen Sensor - OE Type - Exact Fit - Upstream Sensor w/ California emissions..can I use that one in a Fed emissions engine?

you mean you bought wrong sensor for your application or you found old upstream sensor to be california one in federal spec car ?

dealer confirmed your car to be federal emissions, right ?
i think you should go with whatever is supposed to go with this model or ECU may go crazy on exhaust air monitoring and fuel trim adjustments.

[zdutch1]

First I bought the downstream sensor but found out it doesnt need it because it doesnt have one for Federal emissions, so thats good. Gonna return that one to the store.

I bought the Bosch 12114. Funny thing is, once we took it out of the box, it said Denso on the unit. So thats a bonus. We replaced the front sensor because it was easy to get to and its a gamble which one was bad. It was easy and it seems to be working...only thing..CEL still on. Gonna have to read in forum how to get that of.

Thanks again!

[fenixus]

go to autozone and ask them to read trouble codes for free. i wonder what codes it has. it will be OBDI standard i believe since car is a '93 V6.

or look here and try reading the codes yourself (before '96 instructions):
http://www.troublecodes.net/Toyota/

[JohnGD]

There should be an emissions sticker under the hood that will tell you if it's California or Federal emissions, besides using VIN lookup. However, Fenixus doesn't seem to have that sticker under the hood, only a vacuum routing diagram for some reason.

By the picture of the Bosch I could tell it's a reboxed Denso. The tip is a tell. That's a typical Denso design. And both Calif and Fed use the same upstream sensor, so you'll be fine.

After reading off the code by Autozone or other participating parts store, then you can clear it by pulling the EFI fuse or battery negative cable for a minute. It helps the ECU relearn after a new sensor.

Or access Autozone's free repair guide on how to read codes, with registration:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/rep...nfoLanding.jsp

Originally Posted by zdutch1

First I bought the downstream sensor but found out it doesnt need it because it doesnt have one for Federal emissions, so thats good. Gonna return that one to the store.

I bought the Bosch 12114. Funny thing is, once we took it out of the box, it said Denso on the unit. So thats a bonus. We replaced the front sensor because it was easy to get to and its a gamble which one was bad. It was easy and it seems to be working...only thing..CEL still on. Gonna have to read in forum how to get that of.

Thanks again!

[zdutch1]

Is the CEL supposed to go off by itselft or does it need a reset/clearing after fixing what was wrong?
Where are the stickies people refer to?

[fenixus]

i actually purchased a replacement emissions sticker from dealer (a few $ or so), because lack of it was confusing every mechanic i was taking car to
my hood must have been replaced in past after accident that's why i had only vacuum routing diagram over there, installer forgot about other stickers.

stickies people referring to are sticked topic on top of forum, every section has different ones. in gen3&4 people are mostly talking about this big sticky:
Camry FAQ ------> READ FIRST -----> Comprehensive List of Gen 3/4 INFO and DIY

after readin the code (CEL) you can reset it like JohnGD said. EFI fuse is easiest method, if you cannot find it simply pull baterry negative for a minute.

[zdutch1]

Removing EFI didnt do it but removed neg battery cable for a bit and sure enough the CEL went out...for now..lol. It drives so much better already and it only cost me $48 instead of $479 Pepboys was quoting..wow.

Thanks so much for all the help gentlemen (and I use that term loosely )

Art

Now I have another issue, I guess I need to start a new thread...some bundled wire hanging loose behind engine, black and red wires and has small male plug attached (hold the jokes). No idea where it goes...hard to see back there too..