Did a transmission flush, some questions

[71Corolla]

I did the flush in two stages. When I first got the car, I took a look at the tranny dipstick and the fluid looked pretty bad. Yes I've read the horror stories of doing a flush on a transmission with old fluid in it, stories of people ending up with a cooked transmission shorty after, but I wasn't going to leave that crappy fluid in there.

I pulled the pan and cleaned it up including the magnets, removed and cleaned the filter, put everything back together and flushed out/replaced the old stuff using the remove return hose trick. When I first ran the engine while doing the flush, I heard a strange bubbling or slightly metallic sound, something I've never heard before. Just sounded odd, somewhat like metal on metal but not sure? The sound was just odd for lack of a better description. Anyway, I filled the transmission with the correct amount of fluid and drove the car for about 1000 miles. The tranny shifts and seems to run normally, nothing bad to report.

Turns out the pan gasket I used was a piece of crap cork type that was slowly leaking, so today I pulled the pan to replace it. I was a bit surprised to see what looked like metal particles in the oil. They were not stuck to the magnets, but just floating in the fluid. I tried to feel them with my fingers couldn't actually feel them I could only see them. They looked like aluminum I think but can't be sure. The magnets were still clean, only a slight bit of fine particles on them that you can never get completely off when cleaning. The first time I pulled the pan, the magnets had some particles on them but nothing out of ordinary from any tranny I've seen over the years.

I bolted the pan back in with a proper gasket and put some fluid in and started the car. I got the same odd "metallic" sound I heard the first time. My question is, has anyone heard this before? Is my transmission on its way out? Are the particles I saw from the torque converter? I'm not sure, but I think I feel a slight hesitation/dragging when I accelerate from a stop, but it could be engine/throttle body related. Anyone heard these noises when filling and running the tranny after a fluid change? The noise went away after about 3 minutes both times, just concerned my transmission is going to take a dive of me, I drive everyday and can't have that happen.

BTW, sorry for the lack of pics I should have snapped a few of the pan right after I pulled it. I used a neoprene gasket this time so I doubt I will have any leaks.

[Chris Crash]

Think maybe the sound was just everything running without fluid when you first started up?

I dunno, I don't do automatics haha.

[71Corolla]

Originally Posted by Chris Crash

Think maybe the sound was just everything running without fluid when you first started up?

Could be yes. But I've done many auto fluid changes over the years and I've never heard those noises. I would not care about them except seeing the metallic looking bits in the oil has me spooked, especially since I only drove about 1000 miles after I did the flush the first time.

[JohnGD]

Many people have flushed the ATF using the cooler lines, but as I said 5/18/10 in the following thread (msg#13), that I wouldn't want to run any pump dry.

Transmission fluid flush/drain&refill

Generally speaking, any gasket should be replaced every time you remove it. I would even use a new ATF strainer because it comes with a new gasket. This way you won't run into suction side air leaks. A Fram ATF kit is about $15 these days and it comes with a strainer and pan gasket.

One thing about magnets, did you replace them in specified locations on the pan, or at least where you found them? They should not be blocking the strainer pick-up port. The strainer acts like the engine oil pick-up tube. You can have low ATF pressure that may contribute to the symptoms.

Also, when you started hearing noises while doing the cooler line flush, it can mean that the pump has run dry. But I'm sure other cooler-line-flush owners have experience the same thing. So maybe they can shine some light on this.

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

I did the flush in two stages. When I first got the car, I took a look at the tranny dipstick and the fluid looked pretty bad. Yes I've read the horror stories of doing a flush on a transmission with old fluid in it, stories of people ending up with a cooked transmission shorty after, but I wasn't going to leave that crappy fluid in there.

[Camry LE 94]

I did the same fluid flush a month ago. I didn't hear any type of metal to metal contact. My transmission has been rebuilt twice already since I had the car because it crapped out due to old, burnt up fluid. Delivering pizza with O/D on in the City didn't help it out the second time either . Anyway, after the last rebuild, I have the same problem with the tranny dragging upon acceleration from a stop, and it jerks the car when it first shifts. I believe this jerk has triggered a Shift Solenoid "E" check engine light that doesn't go off. It wasn't on when I first purchased the car. My tranny has been fine since, however, despite the jerk of the first shift. It shifted extremely well after the flush, but after a month, it went back to normal: shifting hard in first.

[71Corolla]

Thanks for the info John. I re-used the stainer after I cleaned it because the replacement looks somewhat inferior. I however replaced the strainer gasket (pulled off the new one). The gasket came as a kit, the strainer and the gasket. The strainer didn't have any particles at all in it, I only saw them in the oil floating in the pan. The first time I did the job, there were particles in the strainer but only a few.

The magnets I made sure I put them back in their original locations (I did this both times). The locations were totally different from what shows in the Haynes manual and also from other pics I've seen. I am pretty sure they are correct though because there is a slight discolouration in the pan where they have been sitting. They are more or less on the side areas of the pan so I don't think they are interfering with oil pickup but I can't be sure?

As for running the pump more or less dry, not sure how that can be prevented. If you don't pull the pan then it's not that hard, just add fluid at about the same rate as it gets pumped out, I've done this before. Maybe next time I'll take I'll take my car to a transmission specialist, although I'm not sure I trust them either.

[71Corolla]

Originally Posted by Camry LE 94

Anyway, after the last rebuild, I have the same problem with the tranny dragging upon acceleration from a stop, and it jerks the car when it first shifts. I believe this jerk has triggered a Shift Solenoid "E" check engine light that doesn't go off. It wasn't on when I first purchased the car. My tranny has been fine since, however, despite the jerk of the first shift. It shifted extremely well after the flush, but after a month, it went back to normal: shifting hard in first.

Do you mean it shifts hard from 1st to 2nd? Or from neutral to 1st? My 1987 Camry has always had a hard 1st to 2nd shift since the car was new. If I run the tranny with the fluid just touching the dipstick (in other words the level is low) the bad shift is gone, but of course I never actually drive it like that.

I'm not sure if I have the dragging effect from a stop, it is slight, something most people might not even notice. It could be a fuel delivery thing, if I stomp on the pedal when going very slow or from a stop the car takes off no problem. I think I might also feel it when cruising at a steady speed, just a hint of hesitation or something. I could be paranoid, I'm looking for problems since I got the car trying to get everything fixed.

[Camry LE 94]

well the first shift when accelerating from a stop... so not first to second. the rpms go up with no acceleration, then it jerks upon shifting. it's actually pretty annoying when you're trying to get ahead of traffic from a stop. if i throw the shifter to 2, it wont jerk.

[JohnGD]

I trust that you clean the strainer with ATF and not with solvent. You'll never get the solvent out of the casing really. And you never want any solvent in a lubrication system. But at least you used the new gasket, so that part is fine.

If the type of ATF and level are correct, the strainer isn't leaking on the suction side, no solvents were used in cleaning, and magnets aren't blocking anything, then I can only say have a shop check ATF line pressure and do a diagnosis.

Find an ATRA Transmission Rebuilders Assoc shop:
http://www.atra.com/ShopFinder?transmission

Or you can ask ATRA on their web (I think this is for consumers):
http://www.atra.com/TechAssist

The important thing with the magnets is that they don't interfere with mechanical movement or block the strainer port. So locations should be fine if they're from the factory. Maybe the factory worker or other mechanics (if serviced) were just having a field day with the magnets.

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

Thanks for the info John. I re-used the stainer after I cleaned it because the replacement looks somewhat inferior. I however replaced the strainer gasket (pulled off the new one). The gasket came as a kit, the strainer and the gasket. The strainer didn't have any particles at all in it, I only saw them in the oil floating in the pan. The first time I did the job, there were particles in the strainer but only a few.

The magnets I made sure I put them back in their original locations (I did this both times). The locations were totally different from what shows in the Haynes manual and also from other pics I've seen. I am pretty sure they are correct though because there is a slight discolouration in the pan where they have been sitting. They are more or less on the side areas of the pan so I don't think they are interfering with oil pickup but I can't be sure?

As for running the pump more or less dry, not sure how that can be prevented. If you don't pull the pan then it's not that hard, just add fluid at about the same rate as it gets pumped out, I've done this before. Maybe next time I'll take I'll take my car to a transmission specialist, although I'm not sure I trust them either.

[71Corolla]

I washed the strainer with water (from the top) just to push out the metal particles. I dried it with compressed air then dipped it in tranny fluid a couple of times. I never really thought about not using solvents, I didn't only because I needed some good pressure to flush out the crap and water seemed like the best bet. I would have replaced the strainer but there was just not much in there to worry about, and I didn't like the cheap look of the made in china replacement.

I like the idea of having the transmission tested by a pro, thanks for the link.

[JohnGD]

Ok, ATF helps displace water, so at least that's probably not a show stopper. Compressed air can't really clean the screen inside a casing, because air/fluid takes the path of least resistance. That's why I suggested a new strainer.

As far as aftermarket kits, yeah I understand your concern, but I think major brands like Fram should still be fine.

Keep us posted!

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

I washed the strainer with water (from the top) just to push out the metal particles. I dried it with compressed air then dipped it in tranny fluid a couple of times. I never really thought about not using solvents, I didn't only because I needed some good pressure to flush out the crap and water seemed like the best bet. I would have replaced the strainer but there was just not much in there to worry about, and I didn't like the cheap look of the made in china replacement.

I like the idea of having the transmission tested by a pro, thanks for the link.

[71Corolla]

I am going to drive the car for a few days and then pull the pan again to see what's in there if anything. When I do, I'll replace the strainer with a new one, I still have it left over from the 1st kit I bought.

I'm confident that I got all the water out.

[71Corolla]

Decided to pull the pan again and have a look, things seem grim. It looks almost exactly the same as when I pulled the pan earlier today to replace the gasket. Whatever those particles are, they appear quickly. Is my transmission shredding itself to death? The car seems to drive fine and it shifts great. I checked if any of the magnets are interfering with the puckup or anything else, they're not.

I think I am seeing my tranny die before my eyes though.





I don't know what the frick happened or if it's something I did, the drain procedure I use is what I've done for years without any problems. Feel like driving this car off a cliff I've put tons of time and money into it already.

[JohnGD]

Those are fairly "large" chunks. And quite a few of them too. Yeah, it doesn't look good.

I know many other TN members do the same cooler line flush without problems. But I personally have reservations about the risk of running an ATF pump (or any pump really) dry.

Those are shiny aluminum-like as you said. But are they attracted to a magnet? Some do and will look like hair on a magnet.

Originally Posted by 71Corolla

Decided to pull the pan again and have a look, things seem grim. It looks almost exactly the same as when I pulled the pan earlier today to replace the gasket. Whatever those particles are, they appear quickly. Is my transmission shredding itself to death? The car seems to drive fine and it shifts great. I checked if any of the magnets are interfering with the puckup or anything else, they're not.

I think I am seeing my tranny die before my eyes though.





I don't know what the frick happened or if it's something I did, the drain procedure I use is what I've done for years without any problems. Feel like driving this car off a cliff I've put tons of time and money into it already.

[71Corolla]

I never tested them to see if they are magnetic. I'll drive the car on short trips only for now I guess, if the tranny fails I don't know if it's worth replacing. Worst luck I've ever had with a Toyota TBH.

edit - if they were magnetic you'd think at least some of them would be stuck to the magnets, but the magnets are more or less clean. The magnets look the same as after the first time I cleaned them, just a trace of filings on them that I was not able to remove without spending a lot of time picking it all off. What does it mean to have aluminum pieces like that? (assuming that's what they are)