when to change oxygen sensors?

[smilecow]

I have on 165k on a 99 camry 2.2l.

I've never changed any oxygen sensors since new and never got any check engine for that.

the other days my friend told me that I needed to change oxygen sensors even though I didn't get any check engine light because a car over 100k should change oxygen sensors.

I still got 25 mpg with no problem on oxygen sensors. Shoul I change or just keep them until a check engine light appears?

Is there anybody driving camry over 200k without change them?

[fenixus]

your friend was right, o2 sensors usually become worn out and start degrading fast above 100k miles, their reaction time also becomes sluggish.

you could probably get better MPG with new ones in. choice is yours as it's pricey especially if your ride has an A/F sensor upstream (california specs), this one alone is like $170 for NGK off amazon (OE fit, no splicing, plug and play).

the downstream sensor is regular old type narrow band and NGK replacement is like $80 (no splicing, plug and play). federal emission camry also uses narrow band (cheaper) type for upstream application. check the sticker under hood to find out which one is yours.

[bigbird]

for the most part we replace them when they brake. but they can get sluggish, typically just before they throw a code for the first time. you wont really be able to tell untill a code is thrown and the car goes into limp mode.

[carsrus]

Yeah their to much $$$ to justify preventative replacement. One of my cars has almost 170k and ive only changed 1 out of 3.

On some domestic cars there really cheap and a lot more affordable to replace.

[fenixus]

true guys. i replaced them anyways while tracking down my crazy high (+) fuel trims ... probably wouldn't do that if i knew for sure they were not the ones causing it haha !

hey, if someone want i have for sale, A/F upstream OEM/Denso and o2 downstream OEM/Denso sensor pulled out of gen4.5 5s-fe camry (calif specs). both have around 70k miles on them. can sell cheap

i'm terrible ...

[ajkalian]

Originally Posted by smilecow

I have on 165k on a 99 camry 2.2l.

I've never changed any oxygen sensors since new and never got any check engine for that.

the other days my friend told me that I needed to change oxygen sensors even though I didn't get any check engine light because a car over 100k should change oxygen sensors.

I still got 25 mpg with no problem on oxygen sensors. Shoul I change or just keep them until a check engine light appears?

Is there anybody driving camry over 200k without change them?

Well I've got 215,000 miles on my 2000 Camry LE 6cyl and have never changed any of the oxygen sensors. It's a Calif spec car and they cost lots of money to change them. Especially if you get them from your friendly Toyota Dealer. So as long as the car runs OK, and I don't have any CEL I'm not gonna change them, or even think about changing them.

If it were up to me I'd just weld over the hole that they are screwed into. What possible harm to the planet would occur if my car didn't have any working oxygen sensors.

But when, and if, it comes to it, I'm going with the el cleapo deluxe cut to length universal ones. I checked them out at Kragen and they have super duper water tight connectors.

Here's what the one that fits my car looks like:
http://www.kragen.com/productdetail....pe=291&PTSet=A

Just trim the wires to size, use your old end connector, and you're all set. Or at least that's what this very attractive red head chick working behind the counter said, anyway.

================================================== ============
Edit: If you click on the link above, it doesn't work. Well it gets to Kragen, but it doesn't display the part. Seems you need to enter your ZIP code to get it to work.

I don't have a work around. It's in the red band, at the upper right hand part of the screen. After you enter your zip code the part will display properly. Or you can search Kragen for part #15733. Or you can go here for an image of the part, but no description. http://shop.oreillyauto.com/product_.../bos/15733.jpg

[fenixus]

... hmmm somehow when clicking the link i thought you linked the pic of that red head chick

[projektvertx]

Mine lasted 208K miles before one threw a code at me, so I just changed them all based on that philosophy that they must all be approaching the end of their life. When changing O2 sensors, I would stick with Denso, do NOT buy Bosch. Honestly, I wouldn't change 'em until they throw a code at you, or unless you get a bonus check at work

I would also buy a direct fit, not a universal one, and not re-use the old connection. Why? With an O2 sensor, you are dealing with changes in the Millivolt range, so how well the O2 sensor works really depends on your ability to solder a wire back together. I know the direct fit's are an arm and a leg, but spare yourself the headache

EDIT: I think the official check/replace interval on O2 sensors is 100k miles if I remember correctly....

[ajkalian]

Originally Posted by projektvertx

Mine lasted 208K miles before one threw a code at me, so I just changed them all based on that philosophy that they must all be approaching the end of their life. When changing O2 sensors, I would stick with Denso, do NOT buy Bosch. Honestly, I wouldn't change 'em until they throw a code at you, or unless you get a bonus check at work

I would also buy a direct fit, not a universal one, and not re-use the old connection. Why? With an O2 sensor, you are dealing with changes in the Millivolt range, so how well the O2 sensor works really depends on your ability to solder a wire back together. I know the direct fit's are an arm and a leg, but spare yourself the headache

I think I figured out why the universal ones sometimes don't work. Although it is just a guess. Here's a quote from a good article on O2 sensors.

"The outside of the bulb is exposed to the hot gases in the exhaust while the inside of the bulb is vented internally through the sensor body to the outside atmosphere. Older style oxygen sensors actually have a small hole in the body shell so air can enter the sensor, but newer style O2 sensors "breathe" through their wire connectors and have no vent hole. It is hard to believe, but the tiny amount of space between the insulation and wire provides enough room for air to seep into the sensor (for this reason, grease should never be used on O2 sensor connectors because it can block the flow of air). Venting the sensor through the wires rather than with a hole in the body reduces the risk of dirt or water contamination that could foul the sensor from the inside and cause it to fail."

The complete article is here: http://www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm

Sooo, if the oxygen sensor gets it's oxygen from the insulation, then I'm figuring that the length of the wire and the composition of the wire would be pretty important. Since i have no way of knowing anything about whether the wire is the right length, or of the correct composition, I think I'll head over to my favorite auto supply store and see what that good looking red head chick has to say about it.

[fenixus]

Originally Posted by ajkalian

I think I figured out why the universal ones sometimes don't work. Although it is just a guess. Here's a quote from a good article on O2 sensors.

"The outside of the bulb is exposed to the hot gases in the exhaust while the inside of the bulb is vented internally through the sensor body to the outside atmosphere. Older style oxygen sensors actually have a small hole in the body shell so air can enter the sensor, but newer style O2 sensors "breathe" through their wire connectors and have no vent hole. It is hard to believe, but the tiny amount of space between the insulation and wire provides enough room for air to seep into the sensor (for this reason, grease should never be used on O2 sensor connectors because it can block the flow of air). Venting the sensor through the wires rather than with a hole in the body reduces the risk of dirt or water contamination that could foul the sensor from the inside and cause it to fail."

The complete article is here: http://www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm

Sooo, if the oxygen sensor gets it's oxygen from the insulation, then I'm figuring that the length of the wire and the composition of the wire would be pretty important. Since i have no way of knowing anything about whether the wire is the right length, or of the correct composition, I think I'll head over to my favorite auto supply store and see what that good looking red head chick has to say about it.

wow! wondering when exactly it was introduced. will do some reading on aa1car later, those guys know what they write.

maybe you ask that attractive red head chick out for a coffee/lunch/dinner to discuss the o2 sensor issues ?

[bdy0003]

Originally Posted by projektvertx

I would also buy a direct fit, not a universal one, and not re-use the old connection. Why? With an O2 sensor, you are dealing with changes in the Millivolt range, so how well the O2 sensor works really depends on your ability to solder a wire back together. I know the direct fit's are an arm and a leg, but spare yourself the headache

Actually, depending on which brand you get, they'll give you crimps so you could do a direct contact, then put it over a tight seal. Bosch, Denso, and NGK all provide some sort of crimp.

[JohnGD]

There are at least 12 lines of "universal" oxygen sensors from Bosch. So it's important to select from the manufacturers' catalogs. There is no one universal sensor that fits all, they are still application specific.

For the downstream sensor the Bosch Planar type #15733 is a popular choice. They include a PosiLok connector with each "universal" sensor that's waterproof and easy to splice. The 15733 is a planar type sensor that's more resistant to contamination than traditional thimbles, as in that aa1car article. That thimble is old dino.

Oxygen sensor designs, check out the planar ceramic:
http://www.boschautoparts.com/Oxygen...sorDesign.aspx

Bosch also rebox low volume sensors from other makers, so they also serve as a one-stop store. Therefore, look at the picture first, if it looks like a Denso, and pick the cheapest seller. Otherwise go with a Bosch Planar if available. I do prefer NTK (part of the NGK group) sensors above Denso. For example, NGK/NTK's pump cell wide band sensor technology is second to Bosch.

[73sport]

Originally Posted by projektvertx

Mine lasted 208K miles before one threw a code at me, so I just changed them all based on that philosophy that they must all be approaching the end of their life.
....

Ditto - 95V6 made it to 215,000 no code but one got sluggish. . .

hint top two right are O2 output. 2nd one is sluggish.

[redtigerrocks]

My downstream O2 sensor failed at around 140k miles and threw me a code. Funny thing was, everytime I knocked on the plastic above my CEL, The light would go off :P

[projektvertx]

Originally Posted by bdy0003

Actually, depending on which brand you get, they'll give you crimps so you could do a direct contact, then put it over a tight seal. Bosch, Denso, and NGK all provide some sort of crimp.

But I mean, think about it, the crimp also depends on you as well. It depends on how securely you crimp the connection

Originally Posted by ajkalian

I think I figured out why the universal ones sometimes don't work. Although it is just a guess. Here's a quote from a good article on O2 sensors.

"The outside of the bulb is exposed to the hot gases in the exhaust while the inside of the bulb is vented internally through the sensor body to the outside atmosphere. Older style oxygen sensors actually have a small hole in the body shell so air can enter the sensor, but newer style O2 sensors "breathe" through their wire connectors and have no vent hole. It is hard to believe, but the tiny amount of space between the insulation and wire provides enough room for air to seep into the sensor (for this reason, grease should never be used on O2 sensor connectors because it can block the flow of air). Venting the sensor through the wires rather than with a hole in the body reduces the risk of dirt or water contamination that could foul the sensor from the inside and cause it to fail."

The complete article is here: http://www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm

Sooo, if the oxygen sensor gets it's oxygen from the insulation, then I'm figuring that the length of the wire and the composition of the wire would be pretty important. Since i have no way of knowing anything about whether the wire is the right length, or of the correct composition, I think I'll head over to my favorite auto supply store and see what that good looking red head chick has to say about it.

Hmm, that's interesting

Originally Posted by JohnGD

There are at least 12 lines of "universal" oxygen sensors from Bosch. So it's important to select from the manufacturers' catalogs. There is no one universal sensor that fits all, they are still application specific.

For the downstream sensor the Bosch Planar type #15733 is a popular choice. They include a PosiLok connector with each "universal" sensor that's waterproof and easy to splice. The 15733 is a planar type sensor that's more resistant to contamination than traditional thimbles, as in that aa1car article. That thimble is old dino.

Oxygen sensor designs, check out the planar ceramic:
http://www.boschautoparts.com/Oxygen...sorDesign.aspx

Bosch also rebox low volume sensors from other makers, so they also serve as a one-stop store. Therefore, look at the picture first, if it looks like a Denso, and pick the cheapest seller. Otherwise go with a Bosch Planar if available. I do prefer NTK (part of the NGK group) sensors above Denso. For example, NGK/NTK's pump cell wide band sensor technology is second to Bosch.

Interesting and helpful info buddy

Originally Posted by 73sport

Ditto - 95V6 made it to 215,000 no code but one got sluggish. . .

hint top two right are O2 output. 2nd one is sluggish.

Always interesting how things seem to fail at the same time/mileage with your car and my car Lemme know when something breaks down in your car so I can plan for mine