any idea why tranny fluid becomes clear with age ?

[fenixus]

just a question to experts who might have seen such condition as in title. since some time i can observe my transmission fluid becoming more pale over time, no burnt odor, it just looses the red color with miles. tranny works same as always (actually better after flush).

this was one of reasons why i did complete tranny flush at dealer at 64k miles (it was actually the first one). tranny was not drained & refilled before that mark.

now at 74k miles i check it and again it's almost clear (slightly pinkish) instead of cherry red. is this a problem ?

i will be doing drain & refill tomorrow because of that lackness of ATF color and also because dealer seems to have slightly overfilled it. dip stick reads around 4/5 inch higher than HIGH HOT mark (triple-checked on running engine after driving).

[JohnGD]

The red dye does fade a bit. You may see some gray in there. That's supposed to be clutch material loading.

As fluid breaks down usually they go from red, to red with a hint of brown, brown, and then black. So in general red/brown are still acceptable.

Also, it's hard to see changes on the dipstick. You might want to order a Blackstone Labs oil test and see what kind of wear particles are in there.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/tests.php

A "standard analysis" costs $22.50, some labs charge for test kits, but this lab doesn't.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/standard-analysis.php

Originally Posted by fenixus

just a question to experts who might have seen such condition as in title. since some time i can observe my transmission fluid becoming more pale over time, no burnt odor, it just looses the red color with miles. tranny works same as always (actually better after flush).

this was one of reasons why i did complete tranny flush at dealer at 64k miles (it was actually the first one). tranny was not drained & refilled before that mark.

now at 74k miles i check it and again it's almost clear (slightly pinkish) instead of cherry red. is this a problem ?

i will be doing drain & refill tomorrow because of that lackness of ATF color and also because dealer seems to have slightly overfilled it. dip stick reads around 4/5 inch higher than HIGH HOT mark (triple-checked on running engine after driving).

[fenixus]

OK, thanks will think about lab testing it
sounds like forensics on my tranny fluid

[haux]

Originally Posted by fenixus

sounds like forensics on my tranny fluid

If the tranny committed a crime, it's "fluid" will be of great interest to forensic investigators.

[uibalnme]

Coming this fall...CSI: AAMCO

[fenixus]

LMAO, funny replies

just returned from a car after drain & refill of tranny and diff (god damn this one was a bitch) ... got some pics, unfortunately from a shitty cell, so sorry for quality, hopefully you will be able to tell if this normal after 10k miles to look like that.

I will post more facts with pics below soon, once uploaded.

In summary i'm pissed on dealer service as it seems they did NOT refill the differential (fluid was much darker, almost black) at all, but when i asked they said they did. also diff drain and fill plugs were frozen like hell, so i doubt they touched them. i think i will write an email to Toyota Customer Service and bitch about the service they did.

TRANSMISSION.
I did the drain on hot tranny after local driving and then shifting gears up and down through all gears in parking lot. also i jacked the car up when it was running and shut it off literally a minute before opening the drain plug (10mm hex bit worked like a charm).

amount drained out was around 2.7qts according to my home made scale on my cat's litter bucket
color of fluid inside tranny was in deed red unlike on dipstick. seems the dealer tech poured in book amount of fluid without checking if that's too much (IT WAS above HIGH HOT mark by around 4/5 of an inch).

PICS:

a) dipstick fluid color, almost clear (not really funny after 10k miles only), before the drain & refill, 10k miles old


b) color of tranny fluid in the yellow bucket is like darker red, but it was clear, looked good, smelled like new. i say no problem considering it smelled right. was simply over filled only (thanks to moron toyota technician).



DIFFERENTIAL:
Did i mention that loosening the fill bolt was a bitch ? i'm not talking about access, because this one is a bitch by design and working space is so tight that no breaker bar or torque wrench fits in there. i had to loosen it with a small Duralast 3/8'' ratchet and 17mm socket (hex bit was stripped, 10mm was too big to fit in and 8mm was loose completely). I had to use PB Blaster to break that fucker loose. looked like never touched since car was built in factory!

amount drained out was by book around 1.7qts according to my homemade scale on cat litter bucket (measured on top of tranny drain).

PICS:

a) diff fluid coming out, dark brown (initially almost black), unclear and smelling like shit


b) diff drain plug with magnet that was showing metal particles around it


c) both tranny and diff fluid mixed together in a bucket. result was dark brown unclear and stinky crap, forgot to take pics though, but when i was flushing it in toilet it was dark brown and stinky (autozone refused to recycle tranny oil). below pics only shows the level of both using my not-so-accurate homemade scale. according to my understanding both tranny and diff drain read around 4.3qts


Now i have Castrol Blend in both diff and tranny (finally perfectly at HIGH HOT mark on dip stick after local driving).

this is what i used to fill the diff (front on jack stands, so it didn't get super full before it started pouring out).


BOTTOM LINE.
I hate dealer services and their smart ass techs treating customers like they were idiots, those dumb asses will do everything to fuck up your beloved car. not returning to any of them ever. they are fucking idiots with overblown ego.

I didn't have time to do the P/S flush yet, need to go to Home Depot for barbs, plugs and hoses. besides we had a t-storm here which almost caught me while checking tranny fluid level after local driving... it seems passed now... maybe i can still do the P/S flush

[Rattlin_Steele]

Nice work. When refilling the differential, you said you had the car on stands. Did you do anything special to top it off when car was level? I haven't yet and probably ought to.

Strange about Autozone not taking it. I could swear my local AZ has a sign above their tank stating what they'll accept and won't and it said they'd take it. The small amount I've drained was mixed with used motor oil and I just dumped it all in.

[fenixus]

phew, just returned from car and successfully completed P/S flush

damn, that thing is quick! once engine was started it took literally 10-15 seconds to flush out about 2.5qts of fluid (about 1qt of old one and 1.5qts of new one) via the return hose ... of course i wasn't quick enough (rather filler hole is too small) , so i let the air in and had to bleed it (it sucked in almost the whole return tank during bleeding). now all good

thanks Rattlin_Steele!
i didn't do anything about the incompletely full ATF in differential. it's close to impossible to get access to it from top unless you have real skinny arms (and like 5 joints/elbows in it haha). so in the end i tightened it on jack stands and let it be. screw it. i believe the difference was max around 1/2 inch in fluid level from completely full (on level ground). it's just another stupid design.
one thing about the filler bolt. after spraying it with PB Blaster and waiting like 5 mins I had to literally push it using both hands with every muscle i had at disposal when on my back on the 3/8'' ratchet for 10 seconds to break it free. it's a real bitch.

my local autozone was accepting all kinds of automotive fluids in past, but once it happened that some ass hole brought in tar in like 5 buckets and left it over there by waste tank and left.
once they found out what it was the management got pissed off. now they accept only motor oil (or anything that looks like it). since i told them i had pure transmission fluid, they refused it. if i was doing an engine oil change and mixed then i would have dumped it (saying it was motor oil).

geeeez, i had nice work out today. i call it a day

[JohnGD]

Originally Posted by fenixus

In summary i'm pissed on dealer service as it seems they did NOT refill the differential (fluid was much darker, almost black) at all, but when i asked they said they did. also diff drain and fill plugs were frozen like hell, so i doubt they touched them. i think i will write an email to Toyota Customer Service and bitch about the service they did.

There are many complaints of shoddy dealership service. Some techs are more interested in making more money than to take care of customers' cars. Owners pay book rate, and if the techs can take short cuts bet that they will, because they'll pocket the time difference. I wouldn't be surprised that in a 40-hour week techs can book 100-120 hours of profit. It's more like cha-cha-cha-ching and screw the customers.

Originally Posted by fenixus

a) dipstick fluid color, almost clear (not really funny after 10k miles only), before the drain & refill, 10k miles old

b) color of tranny fluid in the yellow bucket is like darker red, but it was clear, looked good, smelled like new. i say no problem considering it smelled right. was simply over filled only (thanks to moron toyota technician).

I'd expect to see some shade of pink, but from the picture it's not that evident. But now you are using Castrol synthetic blend! Not cheap dealer dino ATF.

I'd shorten the drain interval. Maybe to 7500, or more conveniently to 6000 (on the second oil change). Do the differential on the 4th oil change.

Originally Posted by fenixus

a) diff fluid coming out, dark brown (initially almost black), unclear and smelling like shit

b) diff drain plug with magnet that was showing metal particles around it

I agree, sounds like they never touched the differential. It's just too much trouble for most techs.

However, I'd check to see if your city has a haz-mat/waste oil collection center. They have sprung up all around over the years. Check the government section of the phone book.

Originally Posted by fenixus

BOTTOM LINE.
I hate dealer services and their smart ass techs treating customers like they were idiots, those dumb asses will do everything to fuck up your beloved car. not returning to any of them ever. they are fucking idiots with overblown ego.

That's called the dealership economic stimulus plan. BTW, look what corporate policy is in place to hold profits above anything else:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...900,full.story

[JohnGD]

Next time I'd recommend ENGINE OFF.

With the front end on stands, and hoses in place, just TURN THE STEERING WHEEL lock-to-lock. Check and keep the reservoir filled.

If you have an old, clean shampoo pump (from the larger qt sized bottle the better), you can use that after most old fluid is out. The larger pumps (with the straw removed) should fit the 3/8" hose just right. It doesn't pump a lot of fluid at a time (it's a shampoo pump), but works well for this purpose.

I have a thing against running any pump dry.

Originally Posted by fenixus

phew, just returned from car and successfully completed P/S flush

damn, that thing is quick! once engine was started it took literally 10-15 seconds to flush out about 2.5qts of fluid (about 1qt of old one and 1.5qts of new one) via the return hose ... of course i wasn't quick enough (rather filler hole is too small) , so i let the air in and had to bleed it (it sucked in almost the whole return tank during bleeding). now all good

[fenixus]

Originally Posted by JohnGD

There are many complaints of shoddy dealership service. Some techs are more interested in making more money than to take care of customers' cars. Owners pay book rate, and if the techs can take short cuts bet that they will, because they'll pocket the time difference. I wouldn't be surprised that in a 40-hour week techs can book 100-120 hours of profit. It's more like cha-cha-cha-ching and screw the customers.

LOL , i liked the cha-cha-cha-ching part most
and yeah i believe that's how they do it, taking shortcuts whenever they can and screwing poor loyal customers... sadly, they are destroying the image of precise and reliable Toyota products and cutting the branch they used to sit on.

I'd expect to see some shade of pink, but from the picture it's not that evident. But now you are using Castrol synthetic blend! Not cheap dealer dino ATF.

I'd shorten the drain interval. Maybe to 7500, or more conveniently to 6000 (on the second oil change). Do the differential on the 4th oil change.

you know, somehow my dipstick even with fresh fluid in is still not showing the right color. i have no idea what is wrong with it, probably there is some dirt particles in filler neck that cause the fluid on dipstick to discolor almost instantly. screw it for now. i know that fluid inside is good, that's what matters most.

I can drain & refill tranny like you say, no problem that is easy as piece of cake. diff is sort of problematic, but i have the flexible funnel thingy now, so no problem either (bolts are no longer fused, so piece of cake) ... where i was ? ah yeah, at the piece of cake

I agree, sounds like they never touched the differential. It's just too much trouble for most techs.

However, I'd check to see if your city has a haz-mat/waste oil collection center. They have sprung up all around over the years. Check the government section of the phone book.

I wrote a bitchy e-mail to Toyota USA Customer Experience something. threatened them a little with a lawsuit, pointed out lying to me about differential drain & refill and cheating loyal customers. will see. seeing that $192 back in my wallet would be good enough for now hehe (if tranny/diff fails I canl sue them anyways haha! ). and if not, oh well ... i'm not returning to them anyways, besides i'm informing out loud that East Coast Toyota in Woodrige, NJ cheats customers - DO NOT TRUST THEM, they are fucked up people.

Sorry I poisoned the toilet drain in my neighborhood with the tranny fluid. i feel bad too about it now haha, but i was so pissed off that i could have dumped it on the head of East Coast Toyota manager (if they were open on Sundays that is).

That's called the dealership economic stimulus plan. BTW, look what corporate policy is in place to hold profits above anything else:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...900,full.story

will read on laters, looking like an interesting article

Originally Posted by JohnGD

Next time I'd recommend ENGINE OFF.

With the front end on stands, and hoses in place, just TURN THE STEERING WHEEL lock-to-lock. Check and keep the reservoir filled.

If you have an old, clean shampoo pump (from the larger qt sized bottle the better), you can use that after most old fluid is out. The larger pumps (with the straw removed) should fit the 3/8" hose just right. It doesn't pump a lot of fluid at a time (it's a shampoo pump), but works well for this purpose.

I have a thing against running any pump dry.

hmmm, i didn't know P/S bleeding works with engine OFF, ekhmmm
anyways, it worked fine, it wasn't too much noisy initially, so i guess there was SOME fluid in it too, just lots of air bubbles i guess. it wasn't squealing to be honest, just sort of buzzing ?

I see what you saying now i will have a vane pump failure soon, yeah ? hehe hopefully not the case. will worry about it if that comes real (go away!)

[redtigerrocks]

Is it normal for transmission fluid to look purple-ish?

[fenixus]

Originally Posted by redtigerrocks

Is it normal for transmission fluid to look purple-ish?

well, based on my dipstick experience, every light color (or lack of color) would be normal haha

real problem starts if it's getting darker or black. maybe others post some deeper thoughts on this

[TCam01]

yo fenixus im not gonna lie you asking me if my tranny fluid was red jus saved my ass kinda lol. I went to check it this afternoon and what do i find.....coolant all over the place my radiator had a pretty big crack in the top of it so i replaced it today still not done toyota closed and i still need a thermostat and coolant so long story short i still have to check the tranny fluid haha

[fenixus]

Originally Posted by TCam01

yo fenixus im not gonna lie you asking me if my tranny fluid was red jus saved my ass kinda lol. I went to check it this afternoon and what do i find.....coolant all over the place my radiator had a pretty big crack in the top of it so i replaced it today still not done toyota closed and i still need a thermostat and coolant so long story short i still have to check the tranny fluid haha

, even though i didn't know what that simple question caused
glad you caught it before something really failed

tranny drain & refill is very easy, pretty much same as oil change (you will need 10mm hex bit with ratchet to make the drain easy), just refill is a pain in the ass, because you need to check it hot after some local driving and then shifting through all gears in parking lot to do it right (on running engine you check i mean).
what i did to be on safe side is after drain (i let it drain for like 25 mins as i went to autozone with other car to buy a long neck funnel for refill) i poured in 2 qts (book says 2.7qts) and took it for a drive. checked again and added like 0.3qts, then again driven it locally and finally added like 0.1qts and it seems perfect now.
new fluid takes some time to go down the filler neck, so give it like 10 mins of local driving before you check it hot first time otherwise the dip stick will have the fluid smeared all over and reading won't tell you anything useful.

hope it helps