camry ticking noise

[jkapano]

i have a 1999 camry with the 4 cylinder 3fse motor. the car has always had a ticking noise for as long as I've owned it (prob about 15k miles). The car has 200,000 miles on it. I thought that maybe the ticking noise could be coming from the valvetrain, so I checked the valve clearences with a feeler gauge. All the valves checked out except for two of them. IIRC two exhaust valve clearances too tight, while the other ones all checked out fine. Could too tight of clearances also cause valve noise? I don't know what else to check. the noise is pretty annoying.

[fenixus]

you mean 5S-FE engine, right ?

yes, too tight clearances cause the ticking sound. you may need a special puller/lifter tool to remove shims and measure those with a digital micrometer. there is special formula for calculating the correct thickness of new shim (you can get it from dealer).

over years those clearances actually got tighter, not loosened, so it's normal condition for 200k engine.

[73sport]

hmm - = me no agree on dat!

When valves get too tight they stay open all the time. This typically makes them very quiet.
However, Staying open leads to other issues, missing, misfire, burned valves, loss of power, shaking, poor idle, bad mileage to name a few. . . .

Did you follow the procdure for checking them where you rotate the engine through to point the lobe up and away from the lifter bucket?

It does take special tools; feeler gauge to measure them and a micrometer to measure the shim once removed.

Do a search for "lifter, tappet, valve adjust, 1MZ, 73sport" you should find a post of mine on that topic.

Was this engine well cared for or did it mis oil changes throughout its life?

Edit: formula is just math to determine the desired clearance if out of spec.

Actual vs desired then look it up in the Toyo chart:
http://camrystuff.com/index.php?page=Gen3_Manuals
5S-FE Engine (I4) (18.00MB)
1MZ-FE Engine (V6) (24.92MB)

[fenixus]

ooooops, bad thinking, sorry

Listen to 73sport, he knows a lot about engines

[jkapano]

73 sport,

I basically followed the factory Toyota manual (pdf available online) for the 5sfe. I rotated the crank to tdc, checked the lifters that weren't put under load by the cam lob, then rotated the crank another 360 degrees and checked the other 8 valves. I might go to the dealership and get some shims for the two valves that are a little too tight.

regarding the vehicle history I bought it from my sisters friends who a decent amount of receipts regarding the history of the car. I assume that the oil was changed regulary based off the receipts. For the 1.5 years I've owned it its gotta an oil change and filter every 4k miles.

I'm pretty darn sure the noise is coming from the valves. could it be an oiling issue? I recall doing an oil change and shortly after doing the oil change i started up the engine and no noise from the engine at all. Maybe the initial oil that went through the valve cover lubed up the cams. probably about 5 seconds after started up the same familiar noise started up again. Thats just my guess.
I'm pretty sure it's not rod knock because thats super load, and pretty obvious.

[jkapano]

also I already bought the special tool to do the valves. I got it from amazon.com for about $25 bucks

[73sport]

Why don;t you toss up the values you got from your feeler gauge and they we'll know! How tight is it?

Do you have micrometer or some vernier calipers? You'll need them to measure the shims.
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...per-47256.html

You'll also want a set of small picks. Once you depress the valve spring with that tool or a large screw driver you need to pop the shim out and measure it.

>> Do yourself a favor and PLUG all large return holes to the crankcase (paper towels) to make certain nothing is dropped into the oil pan!


As for valves getting tight: Think about this; that valve is being closed by a spring with 150lbs of pressure (guess as they only list installed height of 42lbs @ 1.336"). Over time it pounds itself into the seat deeper and deeper. Over time the valve tip gets closer to the cam and clearance gets tighter.

Oil changes:
It seems pretty typical that new and old oil change the sound of the valve train. You can pinpoint WHO is making the most noise by using a stethoscope, a long screwdriver, or even a wood dowel on the head and valve cover at idle (place items in your ear). You'll hear about where the noise it.

Post the number and lets see what changed.

[jkapano]

Originally Posted by 73sport

Why don;t you toss up the values you got from your feeler gauge and they we'll know! How tight is it?

Do you have micrometer or some vernier calipers? You'll need them to measure the shims.
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...per-47256.html

You'll also want a set of small picks. Once you depress the valve spring with that tool or a large screw driver you need to pop the shim out and measure it.

>> Do yourself a favor and PLUG all large return holes to the crankcase (paper towels) to make certain nothing is dropped into the oil pan!


As for valves getting tight: Think about this; that valve is being closed by a spring with 150lbs of pressure (guess as they only list installed height of 42lbs @ 1.336"). Over time it pounds itself into the seat deeper and deeper. Over time the valve tip gets closer to the cam and clearance gets tighter.

Oil changes:
It seems pretty typical that new and old oil change the sound of the valve train. You can pinpoint WHO is making the most noise by using a stethoscope, a long screwdriver, or even a wood dowel on the head and valve cover at idle (place items in your ear). You'll hear about where the noise it.

Post the number and lets see what changed.

I don't know what the measurements were for all of the intake and the valves. Basically I just made sure they were in spec. For the other tight exhaust valves I couldn't even get my smallest feeler gauge under the cam and the shim to even get a good measurement.

I need to borrow my friends micrometer and measure the tight exhaust valves then get back to you guys.

I also have that pic that goes along with the shim remover tool.

I'll get back to you guys.