98 Camry 250k 9koci - how much sludge? pics insid

[hooRAH]

(game show music) Its time to play........GUESS......MY........SLUDGE!

Here we have a 98 Toyota Camry with 250,000 on the clock. around 9k OCI on conventional oil, sometimes less, rarely more, and every once in awhile ran on synthetic for 10k + miles. All sorts of different brands, I usually bought whatever was on sale. Almost always a mobil 1 filter.

Alright, got your answers down? If you guessed NONE, you'd be correct! Okay, well maybe there are a few varnish spots, but nothing I'd ever worry about.












Now, tell them what they've won! Oh, sorry. No prizes or refunds.

[carsrus]

Wow. Thats all highway miles right?

Ive seen a gen 4 with 120k all city miles and consistent 3k oil changes and it wasnt much better.

That just proves how much overkill 3k oil changes are.

[hooRAH]

This car has some ninja magic miles on it - I have no idea where they came from! My wife used to drive this car to work every day (pretty long commute) and we took it together everywhere else we went, which was often on long trips. According to my logs, we put like 25k on it last year!

She just bought a Honda Pilot to replace it (we needed more room for the dog) and I'm worried that its going to be more expensive than I thought in operating costs. Anyway...

Yeah, they're mostly highway miles I guess. The car drinks/leaks oil (actually, hoping to stop the leak, thats why I pulled the valve cover), so for every 10k miles, I'm ususally adding about 3 quarts of make-up oil to it, so I guess you could say the oil change interval is more like 6k based on that (but still 9k on the filter).

Also, I recently went to 20w50 in the last oil change because it was on sale and I thought it might reduce the consumption.

This car has been an absolute workhorse. I've never had another car come close to the miles/$ value this car has given.

[73sport]

^^ you need more caffeine! lol

Short trips KILL! Period!

Just because OP gets away with this, you folks doing 2 to 4 short stops a day (10mile round trip per day <1000 miles per year) will suffer as those short trips are very different than daily highway miles.

[Jason.MZW20]

Not bad. My 1990 (production date) 5SFE with ~210k miles was blacker up top. It had some SERIOUS blowby, but no sludge either. Headgasket was in top shape too, but I found scratching on the cylinder walls and piston skirts. That's a compression killer.

You might wanna get rid of that 20W-50 sooner rather than later unless you're consistently running your engine in ambient temperatures of over 100*F at "cold" start and during operation. That stuff kills bearings on cold starts below 80*F because its so thick and doesn't circulate quickly enough. It does help oil burning, but my 5SFE spun a rod bearing with that stuff, so be wary.

[hooRAH]

Originally Posted by Jason.MZW20

You might wanna get rid of that 20W-50 sooner rather than later unless you're consistently running your engine in ambient temperatures of over 100*F at "cold" start and during operation. That stuff kills bearings on cold starts below 80*F because its so thick and doesn't circulate quickly enough. It does help oil burning, but my 5SFE spun a rod bearing with that stuff, so be wary.

Well, the oil is definitely 120+ on cold start when I leave the office. I had the misfortune of picking up a set of metal handed pliers I had left in the car during the day - they were at LEAST 120F. On cold start in the mornings, I'd say its about 80F out. Its hot down here.

Still though, I ran 20W50 for years in my old BMW before switching to Mobil 1 0w40. It was what the shop I used to go to recommended for all the older BMWs in florida, and I've heard that recommendation from more than one place. Lots of people run it. I'm sure its not wonderful on bearings at cold start, but I can't imagine it hurts all that much. Then again, our winters drop to usually not less than 50F.

I appreciate the info and will keep it in mind. The 20W50 is probably the last oil change the car is going to see, its for sale since buying our Pilot. I change the oil and I'm replacing the valve cover gasket to make it easier to sell.

[97ToyCar]

That sucker is clean! I hope mine has fared as well as your has. Pay a little now in oil changes and maintenance, or a whole lot later. My wife just rolls her eyes when I tell her it's tinker time, but that's ok, since most women stick the key in, and floor it, like mine does. I enjoy working on our cars, and all the cars I have had over the years, regardless of make, have been good, faithful friends, almost like they were part of the family. Take care of your car, and she'll take care of you.

[projektvertx]

Originally Posted by 73sport

Short trips KILL! Period!

Just because OP gets away with this, you folks doing 2 to 4 short stops a day (10mile round trip per day <1000 miles per year) will suffer as those short trips are very different than daily highway miles.

That's exactly why I choose a 15 mile trip, with ~12 being freeway to work, over a 6 mile all city trip. And 4 miles of that city can be set a cruise control at 40 MPH. Freeway FTW. I also pick freeway over city to school

[Kingdom934]

A lot of times I do not go with the milage. I go with the condition and driving lenght. Too bad we cannot accurately measure the amount of time the oil has been in the engine running rather than how much miles the car traveled.

Since several of my friends (whom I maintain their Camry) drive often and due to the fact we're on the island, sludge is an issue. I stick to a strict every 3K or less for them. Most of their driving is about at lease 10 miles one way or the other, but rather be safe that sorry. All their engines already had shown signs of sludge (1MZ-FE's) by the oil cap area (they are all second owners or more). My mom 5SFE gets hers done every 3K which her driving is more long distants (20+). Appears to be in a no sludge situation (I checked on the oil cap area). My Dad oil changes are done every few months by me with intervals around 1.5K ~ 2K due to his driving being only 5~10 miles to and from work on city.

[fenixus]

Originally Posted by carsrus

Wow. Thats all highway miles right?

Ive seen a gen 4 with 120k all city miles and consistent 3k oil changes and it wasnt much better.

That just proves how much overkill 3k oil changes are.

can't agree. when someone uses shitty cheapest oil filters then 3k miles is still recommended for those hot sludge making engines.
OP said he used mostly only Mobil1 filters with any promo dino oil from store.
i've seen same kind of varnish (generally clean) on 181k miles old '92 Buick Lesabre which i run on shittiest oils and filters out there and very often going slightly above 3k miles OCI (never tried above 4k though). most of those miles are highway too.

for comparison when i checked valve cover of my back then 64k miles old '00 5s-fe it had black sludge marks and streaks here and there already, however there was less varnish (lighter color) ... though still the looks of oil filter hole was scaring me more than valve compartment condition.
mind that i was following 3k intervals with also mostly promo dino oil, only problem that I didn't stick to good filter like Mobil1/OEM/Denso/WIX/etc

OP's post rather proves how good the Mobil1 filters can be

[islandboy57]

Originally Posted by Kingdom934

A lot of times I do not go with the milage. I go with the condition and driving lenght. Too bad we cannot accurately measure the amount of time the oil has been in the engine running rather than how much miles the car traveled.

Since several of my friends (whom I maintain their Camry) drive often and due to the fact we're on the island, sludge is an issue. I stick to a strict every 3K or less for them. Most of their driving is about at lease 10 miles one way or the other, but rather be safe that sorry. All their engines already had shown signs of sludge (1MZ-FE's) by the oil cap area (they are all second owners or more). My mom 5SFE gets hers done every 3K which her driving is more long distants (20+). Appears to be in a no sludge situation (I checked on the oil cap area). My Dad oil changes are done every few months by me with intervals around 1.5K ~ 2K due to his driving being only 5~10 miles to and from work on city.

Hah, I started reading your message and when I saw "island" I immediately looked to see if you were from Hawaii and of course you are

I agree, driving conditions around here are prime for sludging. I set my OCI at every 5mo/5K miles but in reality it ends up being 4 months which is about 2K miles for me. Every weekday I drive to/from school/work and it's literally a 5-10min city drive so I know it's brutal on my engine and oil. I use Castrol Syntec/EDGE 5W-30.

I have the 2AZ I4, my mom has the 1MZ and her driving habits are even worse than mine! I make it a point to take her car out of the Kaimuki/Waikiki area and onto the freeway if I'm going to Hawaii Kai or Kapolei or wherever just to give it some exercise. I change her oil every 3-3.5 months which is anywhere from 500-800 miles. I use Valvoline 10W-40 high mileage syn blend for her car.

I thought that sludge in the oil filler hole was 'normal' on the 1MZ? I swear I read that on TN a while ago. Cause it's not setup the same way as my 2AZ which has a larger opening for the oil to go into the engine area.

BTW I see you have an '07 Versa. One of my friends has a gray one with ~40K miles and would you believe 1/2 qt of oil came out at its last oil change? The dipstick was sludgy along with the oil filter. It had two oil changes the first two years on the SAME oil filter - believe me, I was not a happy camper trying to pry it off to change it! I started changing her oil for her in '09 and after it was sludgy, I told her to come back every 4 weeks til it cleared up a little. Needless to say I haven't seen her for 7+ months since I last changed her oil. Whatever, I tried. She was wondering why her low oil pressure light was flickering the day before I last changed her oil for her. I have a feeling her motor is toast. It's a shame cause they've still got 2-3 more years left worth of payments.

EDIT: My gf's aunt has an '06 Corolla that we unintentionally let go for _fourteen months_ without an oil change. That's about 3-4K city miles. The oil was dark but no ill effects and now we're back to every 5 months. Good thing we used an OEM filter and synthetic oil! Whoops!

[redtigerrocks]

is sludge the burnt oil I see under my oil cap ?

[fenixus]

Originally Posted by redtigerrocks

is sludge the burnt oil I see under my oil cap ?

if it's black then it might be it. take a look at oil filter hole on your engine while changing oil (use flashlight). if you cannot see any shiny metal parts down there then your engine is sludged. mine was black down there.
now after almost a year of running on pure good synthetics, running sea foam treatment meanwhile I saw last time finally some shiny parts

they say if you notice sign of a sludge then you should cut your OCI into half and switch to quality filters.

now running auto-rx treatment to get it cleaner even more. i also swicthed for my DIY oil changes with only old good Castrol GTX dino 5W-30 (when using treatments or doing the rinse cycle) or for good synthetics like Valvoline or Mobil1.
I also switched to known good filters. if parts store has oil change promo with a shitty filter only I don't take it from them. I have a choice of like 4 chain stores doing different oil promos around here. so i pick whatever suits me best every time.
Purolator Pureone (yellow) oil filters are good too. you usually can get them for only additional $2 on oil change promo with regular/classic white (or blue) Purolator filter.

[projektvertx]

Originally Posted by islandboy57

I thought that sludge in the oil filler hole was 'normal' on the 1MZ? I swear I read that on TN a while ago.

You are right, I remember reading something like that as well. That's pretty much a universal thing I believe.

[redtigerrocks]

Yeah I read somewhere that sludge or burnt oil under the oil cap is normal for engines with over 150k+ miles and over 16 years old