Trouble with drum brake job

[haux]

Based on this write-up: DIY: GEN 3 Brake Shoe Replacement and Parking Brake Adjustment, I started working on the rear drums today.

These have not been serviced in all of the 356,000 miles my vehicle has.

The drum itself came off pretty easily. A few taps of the hammer all around and some wiggling took it right off. The whole interior was covered in a sand-storm of brake dust. However, the shoes were in surprisingly decent shape.

Coincidentally, I had purchased the same Wagner shoes as the guy who did the write-up. The first problem I encountered was transferring the "pivot pin" from the old shoe to the new shoe. I removed it fine, but it would NOT hammer into the new hole. Maybe that particular shoe had a smaller hole... I don't know. In the hour+ I tried to hammer it in, I banged up that shoe pretty good.

Eventually I gave up and decided to put the original shoes back in.
I put everything back together. As per the write-up, I rotated the adjusted to its fully closed position. I assume that the mechanism is supposed to readjust itself upon next use.

Apparently not... because that drum has no braking power now, and the parking brake lever is easier to pull up than before. This makes me think the shoes are not touching the drum when the brake is activated.

Should I have manually rotated that adjuster to it's original length, or may something else be wrong?


EDIT (6/26/2010): A few before and after pictures. By after, I just mean after spraying it down with brake cleaner. It looked nicer after tearing it down, cleaning up each part and replacing a few items, but I didn't get a photo of that.






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[Camry LE 94]

I'm no expert here, but i believe you are going to have to move the adjuster so it expands the shoes, just enough so they just touch the surface of the drum. i've removed one of the rear drums before (just not the shoes) and had to mess with the star shaped adjuster to get the drum off. i did this to replace the bearing. good luck though.

[uibalnme]

That's why I HATE drum brakes. Adjusting, re-adjusting, put the drum on, take the drum off. To hell wit that. I'm so happy I did the rear disc swap. I will not have to deal with adjusting drum brakes on my Camry ever again.

Rear disc swap FTW!!!

[DarkMastyr]

self-adjusting the star screw occurs by pulling the e-brake multiple times until you get a firm e-brake. after that, the star screw stops adjusting and you have correct braking power.

you don't adjust the star screw manually until it just touches the drum.

[haux]

Originally Posted by uibalnme

Rear disc swap FTW!!!

I know, I know. I can't afford it right now. I want to do get dual piston calipers for the front too.

So, did I forget to read something from the write-up? Or was it left out?
It seems like I indeed was supposed to expand that adjuster?

[JohnGD]

Sure drum brakes stink, it's amazing what car companies do to save a penny!

You have to pull the parking brake lever repeatedly to activate the adjuster. It will automatically do the adjustment for you when you use the parking brake. If everything was installed correctly, even with the adjuster at its minimum length, repeated use of the parking brake will properly extend it.

BTW, looks like at least one set of shoes in that DIY is made by Akebono, from the AK edge code.

Originally Posted by haux

Based on this write-up: DIY: GEN 3 Brake Shoe Replacement and Parking Brake Adjustment, I started working on the rear drums today.

These have not been serviced in all of the 356,000 miles my vehicle has.

The drum itself came off pretty easily. A few taps of the hammer all around and some wiggling took it right off. The whole interior was covered in a sand-storm of brake dust. However, the shoes were in surprisingly decent shape.

Coincidentally, I had purchased the same Wagner shoes as the guy who did the write-up. The first problem I encountered was transferring the "pivot pin" from the old shoe to the new shoe. I removed it fine, but it would NOT hammer into the new hole. Maybe that particular shoe had a smaller hole... I don't know. In the hour+ I tried to hammer it in, I banged up that shoe pretty good.

Eventually I gave up and decided to put the original shoes back in.
I put everything back together. As per the write-up, I rotated the adjusted to its fully closed position. I assume that the mechanism is supposed to readjust itself upon next use.

Apparently not... because that drum has no braking power now, and the parking brake lever is easier to pull up than before. This makes me think the shoes are not touching the drum when the brake is activated.

Should I have manually rotated that adjuster to it's original length, or may something else be wrong?

[JohnGD]

+1. The need to manually adjust by removing the wheels is for really lame old drum brakes.

Originally Posted by DarkMastyr

self-adjusting the star screw occurs by pulling the e-brake multiple times until you get a firm e-brake. after that, the star screw stops adjusting and you have correct braking power.

you don't adjust the star screw manually until it just touches the drum.

[haux]

Originally Posted by JohnGD

You have to pull the parking brake lever repeatedly to activate the adjuster. It will automatically do the adjustment for you when you use the parking brake. If everything was installed correctly, even with the adjuster at its minimum length, repeated use of the parking brake will properly extend it.

BTW, looks like at least one set of shoes in that DIY is made by Akebono, from the AK edge code.

I just went out and pulled it a load of times. I'm unsure if the braking feels any different. I'll have to inspect it again tomorrow when I do the other drum. One issue I also came across is that the miniature c-clip gets a little bent during the removal process. That clip is also NOT included with the drum hardware kit. I should probably replace it with one from the dealer (if they're sold separately).

Yes, my original shoes also had AK on them. They appear to be of MUCH better quality than the Warners.

[JohnGD]

One easy check BEFORE you put the drum back on is to pull the brake lever several times. You should be able to see/measure the adjuster movement. Of course, the wheels are properly blocked to prevent vehicle movement, etc etc.

Of course, not all pads/shoes from the dealer are Akebonos. Sometimes you get the NBK and these fade much more easily are are often useless even with 1/2 left. IMO aren't worth the time to install NBKs.

Originally Posted by haux

I just went out and pulled it a load of times. I'm unsure if the braking feels any different. I'll have to inspect it again tomorrow when I do the other drum. One issue I also came across is that the miniature c-clip gets a little bent during the removal process. That clip is also NOT included with the drum hardware kit. I should probably replace it with one from the dealer (if they're sold separately).

Yes, my original shoes also had AK on them. They appear to be of MUCH better quality than the Warners.

[JohnGD]

Use a large enough flat-blade screwdriver and push on both ends of the c-clip usually helps to remove it without damage.

C-clip: RAYBESTOS Part #H1170 {Professional Grade} Rear $0.17 a piece
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=307537

Originally Posted by haux

One issue I also came across is that the miniature c-clip gets a little bent during the removal process. That clip is also NOT included with the drum hardware kit. I should probably replace it with one from the dealer (if they're sold separately).

[haux]

Originally Posted by JohnGD

C-clip: RAYBESTOS Part #H1170 {Professional Grade} Rear $0.17 a piece
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=307537

Those ones came with the kit.

The ones I'm talking about, toyodiy lists them as "E RING." They're smaller than the ones in that link, and they resemble the large c-clips used for the halfshafts... just slightly different.

To update, I just went for a drive and braking seems normal. I think I underestimated how many times the e brake had to be pulled.

[SexieWASD]

for future reference, there should be a rubber plug in the front of the drum, you may have to move it over to the new drums if your replacing them, but that hole lines up with a hole in the hub, you can use it to access the adjuster with the drum on the car, this way you can move it up to about where it is supposed to be and you wont have to pull the e-brake nearly as much.


EDIT: Just took a look at the DIY thread, looks like thats in there anyway.

[Hajoca]

The C-clip or E clip is easy to find at any fastener store. The pin that was in the photos, I used a press to get it out.

As for the adjustment, I have my CE's E-brake set to stop my car from rolling back at 3 clicks on my driveway, and no drag at all when off.

[haux]

Originally Posted by SexieWASD

for future reference, there should be a rubber plug in the front of the drum, you may have to move it over to the new drums if your replacing them, but that hole lines up with a hole in the hub, you can use it to access the adjuster with the drum on the car, this way you can move it up to about where it is supposed to be and you wont have to pull the e-brake nearly as much.


EDIT: Just took a look at the DIY thread, looks like thats in there anyway.

I saw that part. The little hole the plug covers up is barely enough to stick a small screwdriver through. It looked really annoying.

[73sport]

After +350,000 miles I can only imagine the tips on the star wheel and the E-brake actuator ratchet are rounded and do not perform as well as they did 15 yeara ago!

Depending on how deep the ridge is in the drum right at the perimeter, simply adjust the star until you can just slide the drum over the shoes. If there is NO ridge, you can get the adjustment pretty close. If the drum has a ridge, figure you may need to adjust a little more to make the brakes work properly AFTER the drum is seated onto the hub fully.

With the drum fully seated in position, spin it. It should spin with just a hint of audiable noise and some drag. 3 options to adjust;
- do it through the hole in the backing plate
- remove drum, adjust the star wheel
- pull e-brake handle

IF - If it gets too tight, sometimes a very slender tiny screw driver must be inserted to push the ratchet arm away from the star wheel while you back the star away to remove tension on the drum and make it rotate freely.