DTC14 HELP! Car starts and then dies.

[toovira]

I have a 1995 Toyota Camry 2.2L Inline 4 (5S-FE) with no OBD II. The engine would start and immediately die. Got DTC14 (no IGF signal). I wrote 2 versions as I know some of you may not care so much about the details.

The short version - Read details below for exactly what I've done
-Cleaned and function check IAC - OK
-Replaced Fuel filter
-Checked Fuel delivery system - OK
-Checked G and NE pick up coils - OK
-Checked continuity between IGF pin at igniter and ECU - OK
-Checked continuity between IGT pin at igniter and ECU - OK
-Checked IGF voltage per service manual - OK
-Replaced Distributor
-Replaced Igniter
Car still does the same thing with DTC14.

The long version
I suspected the IAC valve at first...so I removed and cleaned it. Again, the car would start and die. If I give it gas, it would still die. This eliminates IAC valve from being the cause.

I replaced the fuel filter and check the fuel pressure at the outlet of the fuel filter. I got 46 psi, which is slightly above spec of 38-44 psi. I disconnected fuel return line (outlet of fuel pressure reg) and plugged it. The pressure shot close to 60psi, which is expected. I concluded that fuel delivery system is fine. So I read the diagnostic code...it gave me code 14.

I followed the service manual procedure. I have found that the fail-safety of DTC14 is fuel system cut off....which describes what happens to me. I disconnected a spark plug wire and put a new plug on the line and ground the body of the plug, then have a friend start the engine. I have spark. I also checked the G and NE coils for resistance. All within specs. Followed the DTC14 diagnostic procedure. Got continuity between pin 1 at igniter (white-red) to ECU connector E7 pin 3. Then I checked the voltage at E7-3 (while igniter is disconneced). Got 5V per spec. Now, I replaced the igniter AND ignition coil (inside distributor). It still does the same thing.

I switched between old and new igniter. It starts then dies as usual. Still code 14. Ignition coil was rung out and resistance are within spec before install. The harness rung out fine.

So anyone got any ideas????

[Noku]

After replacing all those parts and it still fires and cannot idle, I would check the engine timing to make sure that's okay. If it is off then you may have a bad dizzy.

[Luckynumber5]

May be a bad ecu, rare but it happens.

[toovira]

I also forgot to mention that the fail-safe condition for DTC14 is fuel system shut down. Which completely describes my condition. I have no access to Oscilloscope to look at the actual waveform.

I'm guessing maybe just IGF input section of the ECU went bad....

[93celicaconv]

My first inclination on this would be your igniter failed. But you said you replaced it. Did you replace it with a known good igniter? If from a salvage yard, you never really know what you have. Might want to get a few and try them all (doubt all salvaged cars have bad igniters).

Was there any previous work done to the car that might have damaged the wiring harness between the igniter and the ECU?

[abew330]

i would think bad igniter...

you check all fuses(under hood & in-dash) and connections?

you check the maf?

Crankshaft / camshaft sensor ?

soo spark is ok because it starts and dies...

no other trouble codes?

what has been done to the car before?

[abew330]

hows cranking? sound normal?

[toovira]

I replaced the igniter with junkyard igniter. Both the junkyard and current igniter did the same thing. No damage to ECU or harness that I know of. I rung it out and it came out to be what I expected.

Checked all the fuses. I traced the schematic....and really, the ignition circuit is quite simplistic. No, I haven't checked MAF yet....and they have a separate DTC for that....and on top, it's on a separate set of harness. I looked through my whole service manual (connector and ECU pinouts), there's no crank or cam sensor in 5SFE. No other trouble code. What has been done? nothing really other than maintenance. No alarm....aftermarket CD player.

Cranking sounds normal. Like I said, it starts...then just dies. It definitely got fuel and spark initially.

In this igniter/ignition circuit....there isn't much on it. Battery -> Fuse -> ignition key -> junction Box ->ignition coil -> igniter -> ECU (with noise filter to the ground).

[toovira]

I guess if "camshaft position sensor) means NE1/G signals.....those coils checked out....and they have a separate DTC for those too.

[93celicaconv]

There is a camshaft position sensor in your 95 5S-FE; it is within your distributor housing. All electronic ignition systems have to have either a crankshaft position sensor or a camshaft position sensor, or both.

I know you are confident your igniter is fine. Be aware that your ECU looks for a signal from your igniter that the current was properly halted from going to the primary coil at the right time to know that the igniter function was correct. That signal comes across IGF. In operation, this signal is not a constand voltage, but a rapid change in voltage. If the ECU does not pick up this signal for 200 consecutive spark cycles (100 rotations of the crankshaft), the ECU shuts down the ignition system and the fuel injectors. There is a time period (and I don't know what that time period is) that needs to pass before the ECU will allow the ignition system and fuel injectors to operate again while looking for the IGF signal. The symptoms seem to fit this scenario, but you should get a CEL to come on though. If no CEL, this probably isn't the problem either.

[AlmightyCamry777]

There's not too many parts left...i'd suspect the ignition switch. I have seen a bad worn out ignition switch make a car run bad once or twice.
The car would run perfectly in it's sweet spot of the switch but run terrible if it were just a tiny bit off. THAT problem took me 2 days and a good mechanic to diagnose.
It's easy to troubleshoot, just try the ignition key in several positions or try jiggling it while the car runs (or if it will run).

[abew330]

have you tried cleaning the connections (plugs) with QD electronic parts cleaner

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=128435_0_0_

clean the plugs to the ECM, igniter etc...

[abew330]

Originally Posted by 93celicaconv

The symptoms seem to fit this scenario, but you should get a CEL to come on though. If no CEL, this probably isn't the problem either.

i made a thread awhile back on starting problem and it turned out to be a bad camshaft sensor
i had NO cel.. just start & die

[toovira]

So I swapped to a Junkyard ECU....same exact thing...same code...DTC14. I swapped to another entire distributor....same code....DTC14. I then swapped to another (#3) igniter....same thing...same code. I'm pulling my hair on this. Everything I disconnect/connect...I sprayed with contact cleaner......physical wiring harness inspection revealed nothing. The harness has been rung out already.....I'm at a dead end.

Hell, I tried the website justanswer.com....the guy is stumped too.....he's now pointing to timing belt.

[toovira]

I checked Ignition Switch by turn off the key....checked the voltage between 7.5A Ignition fuse (inside cockpit) and chassis ground - 0V. Turn the ignition key to "ON" position....checked the voltage at the same place. - got 12V. Wiggled around...solid connection....I can rule out the ignition safely now I think.

I'm going to fiddle around a little more. If I fix it, I'll report what happen....