3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
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I have a 1995 Toyota Camry V6 XLE. It has the OEM A541E automatic transaxle.
About a month or so ago, I started to throw a P0773 code (shift solenoid E electrical). I reset the code to see if it would come back again. About 250 miles later, the code came back. Thinking this could be related to a sticking solenoid, I poured some Seafoam TransTune and Marvel Mystery Oil into the transmission to try to clear up any gunk or varnish in the transmission solenoid valve. I then drove about 300 miles and I threw the code again. I have not noticed any change in driveability, it still feels as smooth and as quiet as usual. I then decided that maybe the transmission needed a little extra help getting any gunk that might be in there, so I did a DIY Transmission Flush. I bought about 20 quarts of Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF (I didn't want to have to stop half way through the flush procedure because I ran out of ATF). I dropped the pan, replaced the filter and poured in 3 quarts. Then I pulled a transmission radiator line and pumped out a quart while I simultaneously put in a quart. I kept the operation running smoothly until the color coming out was a beautiful pink- as pink as the fresh fluid being poured in. Quite pleased with myself, I called it a day. However, again after about 400 miles since the last code, the dreaded P0773 code is back. I pulled out the FSM and have gone through the flow chart. I have checked the wiring harness at both the ECM and at solenoid E (it turns out that the pan does not need to be dropped as claimed by many sources). The solenoid clicks and all resistances are within normal limits. I am at a complete loss as to what to do now. I can't establish a pattern as to what seems to trigger it. I have looked through all the posts and no one seems to have been as thorough in checking as I have. The only case I have seen is where a guy went and replaced the ECM. I don't really have the cash to do that right now, especially for a problem that I can't ever reproduce. I'm not even sure if my diagnostic procedures are even worth anything as this problem seems to occur so rarely that I doubt I could ever reproduce it.
As hope springs eternal, I think I am going to pull my battery connection and let it sit disconnected overnight, hoping that it resets the ECM and the car regains its senses. What do you think? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Q? What did the fluid look and smell like before you changed it? If it was brown and burned it could mean the trans is on its way out.
The circuit your dealing with controls the torque convertors lock up function so a couple of things could be happening. 1st lets consider that when the engine/trans shift, drive train shock occurs and the engine/trans MOVE. If you have an open or a short, maybe its happening right when it shifts.
- Hint, check the engine mounts by viewing the engine/tran during a power brake. Hood up, engine on, look through the hood, put it in drive with brake applied firmly, apply gas. Does the engine move excessively? If yes, it may be broken or shorted wire and the condition is triggered under load.
As the code lists; there could be an open or a short in the circuit. Now if I interpeted this correctly, it seems to imply that if the lockup function has a fault it trips this code for another reason; meaning, If you cruising at 60 and lock-up (l/u) is enabled by the ECM, the the torque convertor (t/c) locks. From this the ECM looks at the final drive speed AND the crankshaft speed and determines the t/c is engauged and not slipping. If it detects slippeage, meaning l/u is not complete it trips a P0773 to disable the t/c l/u function. < You could have t/c going bad?
All of that is assuming there is no fault in the wires such that during SOME SHIFTS a wire makes or breaks contact creating the code and it has nothing to do with t/c l/u.
Does that make sense? Look at P0770 also. . .
When taking off you should feel these shifts (no CEL P0773 on) 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to l/u, 3rd to 4th (45mph), and finally 4th with a tiny nudge as the trans goes into l/u in 4th gear. Most people won't even notice l/u as the the converter is 94% there when l/u occurs providing a 1:1 power from the engine to the transmision input shaft. So you're trying to feel that 6% reduction in slip. You have to pay attention.
**** From the AX2.PDF
P0773 Shift Solenoid E Electrical (Shift Solenoid Valve SL); Open or short in shift solenoid E circuit for 1 time. (2 trip detection logic)
DTC P0773 Shift Solenoid E Electrical Malfunction (Shift Solenoid Valve SL); The shift solenoid valve SL is turned ON and OFF by signals from the ECM to control the hydraulic pressure acting on the lock–up relay valve, which then controls operation of the lock–up clutch. Fail Safe Function If the ECM detects a malfunction, it turns the shift solenoid valve SL OFF.
Trouble Area:
Open or short in shift solenoid valve SL circuit.
• Shift solenoid valve SL.
• ECM
__________________
95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
Last edited by 73sport; 07-07-2010 at 12:01 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to 73sport For This Useful Post:
Oh - try manually shifting the car for a few days too!
Because the braking and Cruise control circuits are talking to the ECM about t/c l/u they could play a roll in when/how the code is triggered also.
Any problems in these areas?
Wow! Thank you for your incredible response! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I'm just in awe.
At the risk of asking a stupid question, could you please elaborate on how I could manually shift the car for a few days?
I checked the wiring diagram for my Camry, specifically between E2 and E7. However, upon closer inspection of the engine compartment, I have noticed a tear in the wiring harness at O6- O/D Direct Clutch Speed Sensor. I am going to repair the harness with some electrical tape after I clean it out and see if that changes anything.
Easy, Just shift using D, L and 2. It's on the order of shifting from D tp reverse or P to Drive, except you'll be shifting almost like you have a manual
The Following User Says Thank You to zythr For This Useful Post:
Easy, Just shift using D, L and 2. It's on the order of shifting from D tp reverse or P to Drive, except you'll be shifting almost like you have a manual
Okay, so just so I understand, this is what I will do:
Start off in L because it is the low gear. Then, as my RPMs increase, take my foot off the gas, depress the gear shift button and change to 2 which will allow me to go as high as 2nd gear. Unfortunately, I suppose I can't get into 3rd gear- does that mean I will never be able to get it into lockup mode which is where I need it to be?
My goal with manually shifting your auto is that it redirects fluid in different areas and may flush something stuck with all that new fluid in there. ATF is highly detergent anyways. . .
Drive in auto and totally pay attention as to when the car shifts. Duplicate this by moving the shift lever. We're not trying to abuse it, just moderate throttle from take off, at 18 to 20mph move from low to 2nd. At 28 to 30, move to drive.
Yes, it will go into overdirve and lockup in 3rd gear if there is no error codes and no there is no need to let off the gas when you change gears.
Just drive it like a stick shift a couple of times during your daily communte. BUT, BUT, all this is for not if you found wire which are compromised! Fix them!
I'd still like to know the answer to this: Q? What did the fluid look and smell like before you changed it?
__________________
95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
My goal with manually shifting your auto is that it redirects fluid in different areas and may flush something stuck with all that new fluid in there. ATF is highly detergent anyways. . .
Drive in auto and totally pay attention as to when the car shifts. Duplicate this by moving the shift lever. We're not trying to abuse it, just moderate throttle from take off, at 18 to 20mph move from low to 2nd. At 28 to 30, move to drive.
Yes, it will go into overdirve and lockup in 3rd gear if there is no error codes and no there is no need to let off the gas when you change gears.
Just drive it like a stick shift a couple of times during your daily communte. BUT, BUT, all this is for not if you found wire which are compromised! Fix them!
I'd still like to know the answer to this: Q? What did the fluid look and smell like before you changed it?
Let me first give some background on this so that I am not placed on the Wall of Shame. I am a first year medical student and I purchased the car back in 2005 from my grandfather, mainly to get it away from him before he could do any damage to the vehicle. He liked to do jackrabbit takeoffs and redline the engine. The engine oil was change religiously with Mobil 1 Extended Protection and a Mobil 1 oil filter. However, my grandfather never changed the ATF, claiming that it was something he had never fooled with in the history of his vehicles and it had never been the problem.
In the summer, I went off to college, leaving my car at home with nice pink ATF. When I returned at Christmas break, the ATF was brown. I did the standard tests: feeling the ATF, smelling it, and the paper towel test. Everything seemed fine aside from the color. I took it to the transmission shop, just to be on the safe side. This transmission shop is the most respected in the state, so I felt, and still do, feel safe with them. The shop owner came out and checked the fluid and said it was fine, just old. He went ahead and dropped the pan and replaced the filter. Keep in mind, this was done while I was at school.
I picked my car up for the summer, and found the transmission fluid still brown (which was to be expected I suppose since only 3 quarts was removed). However, I wanted to check again so I took the car back to the transmission shop. A different technician came out and checked the ATF. He also said it was fine, just old. I smelled the oil myself, and this time it smelled a little burned to me, but it very well could have been that I was just looking for a problem at that point. About two weeks prior to this, I had thrown my first P0773 code. I decided to go forward with flushing my own transmission after an initial pretreatment with Seafoam TransTune and Marvel Mystery Oil, hoping to break up any varnish afflicting my solenoid valve.
I am quite furious with what I call my family's reckless timidity. (They had never changed the ATF for fear of causing a problem). Part of the frustration I feel with this whole situation is that I am training to become a trauma surgeon- my whole philosophy is that it is better to do something and lose the patient than it is to stand idle waiting for the patient to die.
When taking off you should feel these shifts (no CEL P0773 on);
1st to 2nd
2nd to 3rd
3rd to l/u
3rd to 4th (45mph)
4th into l/u (50'ish)
Most people won't even notice l/u as the the converter is 94% there when l/u occurs providing a 1:1 power from the engine to the transmision input shaft. So you're trying to feel that 6% reduction in slip. You have to pay attention.
Can you feel all of these under moderate throttle from a stop?
So what happened to the wires that compromised them? Fire?
All I can say is fix the wires and run it till she dies. . .
__________________
95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
Can you feel all of these under moderate throttle from a stop?
So what happened to the wires that compromised them? Fire?
All I can say is fix the wires and run it till she dies. . .
I can feel the car shifting through all the gears (just barely though, the ride has just always been so smooth). I have been monitoring the shifting for a while now, ever since the problem occurred.
No fire. The wires themselves are fine- the harness just had a bit of a crack in it. There appears to be a lot of built up grease around the wiring harness as it connects into the transaxle. My next step is to degrease that region and clean the wiring superficially. Maybe under heat that grease is able to seep into a connection and throw the resistance out, even opening the circuit. You can tell I'm grasping at straws here, can't you? The hardest part is that the problem is so rare that I can't really reproduce it.
I have one other question for you. How exactly did you learn all of these things? I just graduated from undergrad in engineering and have started medical school. I have always wanted to work on cars and this is the only chance I will have in my life, so I am working this summer in a garage and occasionally on weekends during med school (student loans cover only the bare essentials).
Well, I'm not gonna go into too much detail but lets just say body shops, frame shops, transmission shops, never paying anyone to fix my own stuff, and read what's available which leads us to this.
Well thank you again. I have been driving manually and no problems so far. It's actually kind of fun.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of damage would driving like this do to my torque converter/clutch pack? It just doesn't seem like this can be good on the transmission or is that wrong?
Well thank you again. I have been driving manually and no problems so far. It's actually kind of fun.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of damage would driving like this do to my torque converter/clutch pack? It just doesn't seem like this can be good on the transmission or is that wrong?
Thanks again,
Techniker
My hunch is driving in manual (only 2nd and 3rd) your torque converter wont lockup and it transmission will generate lot of heat because of that.
Loss of MPG could also happen if the TC lockup doesnt happen.
If somehow your line pressure has decreased in "D" and that causing problems try fiddling with the throttle valve cable, only momentarily. This will allow you to drive in D without worrying about above issues.
Also jacking up line pressure in transmission a little is not a bad idea if that helps you in the long run.
Just my 2 cents. Experts here can guide though!
__________________ 1995 Camry DX L4 178,6XX miles and counting each mile.... acquired 05/25/2007 at 129K miles
2004 Mazda6 I4 5-Speed Manual 115,500 miles acquired 01/21/2011 at 109,XXX miles
My hunch is driving in manual (only 2nd and 3rd) your torque converter wont lockup and it transmission will generate lot of heat because of that.
2nd gear does not go into l/u period.
3rd is still 3rd and when l/u requirements are met, it will engauge.
L/U does reduce heat as the impellers in the T/C are not propelling the car. The L/U clutch is just like a stick shifts clutch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peshwa
Loss of MPG could also happen if the TC lockup doesnt happen.
If somehow your line pressure has decreased in "D" and that causing problems try fiddling with the throttle valve cable, only momentarily.
True, if L/U does not work it will likely reduce MPG slightly, but messing with the Throttle Valve Pressure is NOT the answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peshwa
This will allow you to drive in D without worrying about above issues.
Say what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by peshwa
Also jacking up line pressure in transmission a little is not a bad idea if that helps you in the long run.
It's a bad idea. Just leave it alone and/or adjust to factory specification via the service manual.
- sigh
__________________
95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
I am inclined to just give up on the car, if it weren't for the problem that I have no other choice. Here is the most recent history of my vehicle:
-2 CV boot replacements (separate axles)
-Water pump had to be replaced
-Rack and pinion had to be replaced
And now, it looks like this transmission is on its final leg. The problem used to only appear every 400-500 miles, now it appears every 150 miles. We tried a "heroic" intervention with a DIY transmission flush, but I think ultimately it was in vain. Now I am off to plead with my grandparents to buy a new transmission...
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acquired 05/25/2007 at 129K miles
I4 5-Speed Manual 115,500 miles acquired 01/21/2011 at 109,XXX miles
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