3rd & 4th Generation (1992–1996 & 1997–2001)Toyota Camry Discussion for years: 1992-1996 & 1997-2001
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I'm new to this website and have just been through replacing the front wheel bearings on my 2000 Camry. On my end of things, all went well--except the spindle was extremely hard to remove and also to install on both wheels. To get it out I unscrewed the axle nut several turns, placed a socket over it, and repeatedly hit the end of the socket with a hammer. That worked fine, but I'm wondering if I could damage the CV joints by doing this, or the bearings as well (bearings were bad already so this was not a concern). When installing the spindle, it would slip in fairly easily up to a point, but I was not able to get the axle nut to screw onto the threads unless I once again banged very hard, and repeatedly, all around the hub assembly. Once again, I wonder if I'm endangering the bearings or CV joints by all this hammering. I can see that there are universal hub pullers I can buy, but in my research I have yet to come across any type of hub installer. If I could somehow temporarily extend the drive shaft sufficiently far enough through the hub, I'd have it made. All the writeups on the web just say "take it out," but it has been somewhat of a nightmare for me. I'd greatly appreciate your advice and comments and thank you immensely for your expertise. I know that one day I'll have to do this again, and I want to be better prepared. Thanks for your input.
did you disconnect the steering knuckle from the lower control arm? (i think you have to do this to completely remove the axle.)
whenever i reinstall axles through the bearing, it should just about fall back into place with plenty of threads to install the axel nut and torque it down as it pulls the axel into place.
banging with a hammer isnt ideal, especially with reassembly (it shouldnt be needed for reassembly). to remove, the ideal tool would be a 3-jaw gear puller.
maybe im more tired than i thought, but im having a difficult time imaging what is going on. a photo would speak loudly.
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Thanks for your welcome and your reply. Yes--steering nuckle has been freed from both the lower control arm, tie rod end, and strut. I also removed caliper and torque plate as a single unit--all in line with my Haynes repair manual. My major problem is being able to push the driveaxle from the hub. My manual says to "tap the end of the driveaxle with a soft-faced hammer or a hammer and a brass punch" but also says that if the driveaxle is stuck in the hub splines to "push it from the hub with a two-jaw puller." I definitely need the puller (3 jaw or better)--rather expensive, but I believe well worth it. But installation of the driveaxle back into the hub splines is what has me stumped. I can't get it in far enough to get the axle nut on the threads--not without pounding on the hub. Do you think the pressing out of the old bearings and pressing in the new ones by my machine shop has anything to do with my difficulty? The car is all put back together, so no photos are possible now. I should have thought ahead and taken some photos as I went along. Any further advice?
OK - so the original problem was
-getting the axle from the hub.
-getting the bearing from the spindle.
-shop pushed the new bearing into the spindle?
-but getting the axle splines back into the original hub on the original axles was a fight?
True, striking the axle or the hub while supported by the bearings can lead to premature wheel bearing failure. The force actually damagaes the contact area within the bearings balls and races making tiny dings in the surface hardening. Over time these dings shed small fragments as the surface hardening fails. However, some will go forever, others will not. You are not the first and certainly not the last. As you stated, try to avoid direct impact to the bearings.
As for the CV, The inner joint floats and striking the outer end should have little to no impact on the inner joint. Thus, the only impact to the outer joint is generated when a sharp crack to the outer CV spline. BUT, the damage is minimize becuase the axle moves at the inner joint so its the mass of the axle shaft itself that is the backing object being moved when hit. I'd say it places minimal load on the balls and contact area. But thats not to say it couldn't induce a fault from being struck and this should be avoided if possible.
OK - what concerns me is the axles should have gone back into the hubs. So I'm guessing the bearings you bought came with hubs and the slight change in fit from the old to the new could easily make the axle very tight on the splines. Cleaning both parts completly and applying some white lithium grease is the best you can do (wire brush and wipe with solvent). Look and feel for burrs. Remove them with a file and install. A small imperfection could turn this from an interferance fit to no fit. Options include heating and cooling the adjacent parts. Both have seals, grease, ect which make them bad candidates for either extreme tho.
So did a shop push the old bearing from the spindle and the new one in using a press? Removing the rust and cleaning the splindle would go a long ways here, not to mention a light layer of grease. NEVER USE anti-seize compound here. It makes it worse!
Hope that ^ book doesn't drive you crazy >> TMI!
Hint: as you start driving with these new bearings in, listen with everything in the car off and the windows up. At speed turn the wheels and listen to the pitch change when turning left vs right. Do this occasaionally as you drive. You'll hear changes before anything ever gets out of hand (before they ever fail). Pay attention to the changes/new noises!
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95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
Last edited by 73sport; 07-16-2010 at 05:39 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to 73sport For This Useful Post:
Thanks for such a detailed writeup. The statements in your first paragraph are all correct, although I'm a little confused with the terminology. Just what do you mean by the "spindle?" The steering nuckle itself? Or just the area of the driveaxle that contains the splines? But you are right--the original problem was getting the driveaxle out of the hub. Once it was out, I took the hub and bearing assembly to a machine shop where they pressed the hub and bearing from the steering nuckle and then pressed in the new bearing. I watched him do this, and it took him a long time. He claimed it took 12 tons of pressure to press out the bearing! I don't think this was something that he did very often, and he seemed to proceed rather clumsily. But he did get the job done. If I had to do it over again, I woud have paid for the extra peace of mind and gone to a Toyota dealer. I didn't notice his cleanng any parts in the process, though. So all this was done with the original hub and steering nuckle.
It appears that it is normal for the driveaxle to go in easily, at least until I can get the axle nut threaded on it. It appears that I have been deficient in cleaning up the splines on both the driveaxle and hub. I just used a toothbrush and brake cleaner--the error of a novice! I see now I should have used a wire brush and really taken the time to clean them well--maybe even use some kind of rust remover too. Perhaps that would have done the trick. But as the car has now been put back together, I cannot do the cleaning unless I once again remove the driveaxle from the hub, and to do that without banging I'd have to invest in a universal hub puller. So I guess I'll just leave it be for now, and next time I'll be all the wiser.
Since I reused my original hub and steering nuckle, the work done by the machine shop should not be the cause of the stubborn driveaxle. Agreed? If so, it must lie in the cleaning I omitted. Thanks again for taking the time to post.
BTW, I don't see any rubber seals that would keep water, dirt, etc. out of the bearings. It seems all too easy for water to get to the bearings.
There is an inner dust boot that wraps around the axle just before the outer CV joint goes into the bearing. This is supposed to protected the wheel bearings from the inner side.
The outer side wheel bearings are supposed to be reusable. See below thread DIY - Front wheel bearing R&R
In this thread member BMR talks about new wheel bearings missing the dust seal (a rubber ring that runs around the periphery of the wheel bearings?)..He ended up reusing his old wheel bearing seal on outer side....
__________________ 1995 Camry DX L4 178,6XX miles and counting each mile.... acquired 05/25/2007 at 129K miles
2004 Mazda6 I4 5-Speed Manual 115,500 miles acquired 01/21/2011 at 109,XXX miles
The Following User Says Thank You to peshwa For This Useful Post:
Thanks for such a detailed writeup. The statements in your first paragraph are all correct, although I'm a little confused with the terminology. Just what do you mean by the "spindle?" The steering nuckle itself? Or just the area of the driveaxle that contains the splines? But you are right--the original problem was getting the driveaxle out of the hub. Once it was out, I took the hub and bearing assembly to a machine shop where they pressed the hub and bearing from the steering nuckle and then pressed in the new bearing. I watched him do this, and it took him a long time. He claimed it took 12 tons of pressure to press out the bearing! I don't think this was something that he did very often, and he seemed to proceed rather clumsily. But he did get the job done. If I had to do it over again, I woud have paid for the extra peace of mind and gone to a Toyota dealer. I didn't notice his cleanng any parts in the process, though. So all this was done with the original hub and steering nuckle.
It appears that it is normal for the driveaxle to go in easily, at least until I can get the axle nut threaded on it. It appears that I have been deficient in cleaning up the splines on both the driveaxle and hub. I just used a toothbrush and brake cleaner--the error of a novice! I see now I should have used a wire brush and really taken the time to clean them well--maybe even use some kind of rust remover too. Perhaps that would have done the trick. But as the car has now been put back together, I cannot do the cleaning unless I once again remove the driveaxle from the hub, and to do that without banging I'd have to invest in a universal hub puller. So I guess I'll just leave it be for now, and next time I'll be all the wiser.
Since I reused my original hub and steering nuckle, the work done by the machine shop should not be the cause of the stubborn driveaxle. Agreed? If so, it must lie in the cleaning I omitted. Thanks again for taking the time to post.
BTW, I don't see any rubber seals that would keep water, dirt, etc. out of the bearings. It seems all too easy for water to get to the bearings.
I'd say you're good to go and taking it apart is of no value. Did you have torque wrench capable of doing the spindle nut and did the keeper and locking mechanism fit the way they did when found? If there is any doubt about the axle not seating; retorque the nut!
Yes, spindle = steering knuckle.
And no there isn't much to protect the inner bearing in the hub area. It escapes me if theres a rubber biscuit like seal there or not? But the axle has one of two things. Right at the end of the splines there should be either a counter ring if equipped w/anti-lock brakes or a pressed on dust shield to deflect some of the road debris. Confirm yours is in place on the axle.
Thanks, I'm to detailed for some and seldom fall short in that area. lol I like folks to "know why" so they can make their own decisions vs "just do X".
Post up if you have other questions. . .
/73
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95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
Last edited by 73sport; 07-16-2010 at 11:37 PM.
Reason: Defect vs deflect. . . .
The Following User Says Thank You to 73sport For This Useful Post:
FWIW: the 9 - 11 photos in BMR's nice write up ( DIY - Front wheel bearing R&R) show his car with the counter ring for the anti-lock brakes. The cars w/out these still have a pressed on shield but it has no nubs to be counted.
Make sense? Does yours have this? Sometimes they get left off when axles are replaced.
BMR, i'm stealing your photos! Did I say that was a great write up?
See where the end of this arrow begins (nice eh) that shield is what gets left off during axle replacement on cars w/out A/L Brakes!
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95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
Last edited by 73sport; 07-16-2010 at 11:52 PM.
Reason: Stealing!
The Following User Says Thank You to 73sport For This Useful Post:
No. I do not have a torque wrench capable of measuring 217 ft-lbs for the axle nut. But as a mathematician--really, a mathematics teacher--I computed the length of my breaker bar in feet (approximately 17 inches = 1.4 feet) and weighed myself (about 154 lbs). Multiply those and you're very close to 217 ft-lbs. So I just positioned my feet at the very end of the breaker bar and had to reposition it a number of times until the nut no longer turned. So I think it's good and tight. Road test went OK.
Also, my Camry has A/L brakes, and my setup looks just like BMR's picture #11. The dust shield is metal, not rubber, and fits into the hub over the snap ring. It has a little hole in it to accomodate the ABS sensor being able to spy the notches on the counter ring. If you look carefully at the photo you can see the hole. Still, it seems that water could easily get in there. But apparently that's just the way it is.
73sport--thanks so much for all the details. I, like you, am a detail person, and I appreciate the 'why" as well as the "how." At this point I believe all my questions have been answered. Thanks to all who responded to my very first post! My biggest lesson--clean those splines until they shine! Now I just have to wait and see if I've damaged my new bearings. Live and learn. But at least it's not lethal.
No. I do not have a torque wrench capable of measuring 217 ft-lbs for the axle nut. But as a mathematician--really, a mathematics teacher--I computed the length of my breaker bar in feet (approximately 17 inches = 1.4 feet) and weighed myself (about 154 lbs). Multiply those and you're very close to 217 ft-lbs. So I just positioned my feet at the very end of the breaker bar and had to reposition it a number of times until the nut no longer turned. So I think it's good and tight. Road test went OK.
I like how you think and love this . . . . {blue}
It the Kiss! Keep It Simple Stupid!
Honestly it'd be hard to overtighten that nut so I think you're good!
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95 Cam, V6 1MZ, Auto A541E, LE >245,000 miles!
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Need Advice to Pull Spindle into Front Hub
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